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Rynn
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:24 pm

    Ok, after finding this site analyzing the equations used for damage..
    http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=396507

    You can tell that, with the right defense, an increase of 1.5 AR, can actually lead to such things as three times the damage. Considering how I don't really feel like breaking down and analyzing it any more then they have already down. (At least at this moment) I'll just copy and paste what they said in a spoiler for those who can't get the website to load. Ok?

    How damage calculation works.:

    Personally the most surprising part of this is

     "First of all, purely for comedic value, let’s take a moment to note that for extremely high values of defense, or extremely low values of attack, increasing defense actually increases the amount of damage we take (at 400 attack and 4,000 defense, for instance, we take 38 damage, while at 400,000 defense, we take 40 damage)!"

    Who would ever expect that?


    Ohhh, btw, for any member who feels like taking this and editing the information to make it work in the wiki, gets a free cookie... and a scooby snack.


    Ohh, I just found a second part... here it is. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=398745
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by reim0027 Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:41 pm

    Wow. Impressive. So, how does that translate to tradeoffs like "Should I lower defense to gain higher AP or HP?"

    Oh, and +1
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:18 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Wow.  Impressive.  So, how does that translate to tradeoffs like "Should I lower defense to gain higher AP or HP?"

    Oh, and +1
        I would say it strongly depends on your weapon. With a big powerful weapon with like 600 ar, 20 extra points adds quite a bit more damage then 20 extra points would to a weapon with 350 ar. So for the most part, Str weapons actually benefit more from scaling then Dex weapons would.

       If you're running str, try to go for more damage, (as long as you don't go past 40, (although with some crystal weapons that's still fine)) well with Dex weapons, the if you have to decide between one more point in vit and one more point in dex, then it's not as big a difference. However, if you were wearing both Mask of Mother, and FaP, then the point in Vit should actually help much more. Like was mentioned in the article, at a decent level of vitality, the mask of mother provides more survivability then even the Giants Helm.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:07 pm

    All my strength builds have 66 strength for this exact reason.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:11 pm

    Rynn wrote:All my strength builds have 66 strength for this exact reason.
    Ummmm, Why in the world do you do that? It's still not that useful compared to putting it into another stat. You could put it into attunement and suddenly have the possibility of pyromancy available to you.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:13 pm

    Pyromancy does nothing for a strength build, but 24 extra strength when two handing is often 40-70 more AR with strength weapons; and that is upwards of 200 additional damage per hit. That's the equivelent of adding a combustion strike to each and every successful blow against your opponent.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:17 pm

    Rynn wrote:Pyromancy does nothing for a strength build, but 24 extra strength when two handing is often 40-70 more AR with strength weapons; and that is upwards of 200 additional damage per hit. That's the equivelent of adding a combustion strike to each and every successful blow against your opponent.
    What are you talking about? Even with a Crystal Demon's Greataxe, the most it gets per point past 40 str is 2 AR. And most of the time it only gains 1 AR per point.
    Sure, going above 40 is much more useful for a str build, then a dex build. But still, it's not all that much. You could put into vit and gain lots of health, or you could put into endurance and be able to equip more poise without worry.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:44 pm

    66 str allows you to reach 712 ar with a +15 dga if you twohand, as 66 twohanded is equivalent to 99, if you made the dga crystal with 66 str you get 767 ar twohanded, at 46 str (base req for dga) you get 654 one handed and 679 twohanded, being pure damage thats a pretty hefty damage boost according to the calculations you have above
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:51 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:66 str allows you to reach 712 ar with a +15 dga if you twohand, as 66 twohanded is equivalent to 99, if you made the dga crystal with 66 str you get 767 ar twohanded, at 46 str (base req for dga) you get 654 one handed and 679 twohanded, being pure damage thats a pretty hefty damage boost according to the calculations you have above
    Ohh, ok, I thought we were talking about one handing it. That makes more difference then. 

    Yeah, it's a very huge damage boost then.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Shakie666 Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:54 pm

    Interesting. I've noticed than when I use a build such as this, I do disproportionately more damage than when I use a build such as this - well now I know why.

    What are we to make of this? Does this mean that going up to 66 str is viable with a demon's greataxe? (To be perfectly honest, while it would be nice to have a viable pure str build, I think those extra points of str would be better spent elsewhere).
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:06 pm

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=144725040568385664

    basically this thing here, 1800 hp 77 poise 66 str and a secondary weapon at 466.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:25 pm

    http://mmdks.com/47e6

    This is my favorite build in the entire game because it's a strength-centric build that can use any weapon in the game with phenominal results, even though it lacks magic. Despite being a fat roller it's got about a 90% win rate.

    So anyway, 66 strength? Always worth it for a pure build. Strength weapons crave that extra 60 AR, more than pyromancy.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Shakie666 Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:59 pm

    Rynn wrote:http://mmdks.com/47e6

    This is my favorite build in the entire game because it's a strength-centric build that can use any weapon in the game with phenominal results, even though it lacks magic. Despite being a fat roller it's got about a 90% win rate.

    So anyway, 66 strength? Always worth it for a pure build. Strength weapons crave that extra 60 AR, more than pyromancy.
    Why use the DGH? The great club has less weight and better AR (though the lower stat requirements don't matter when you've gone way above them).

    Also, why 75 poise? Isn't that 1 less than what you need to tank a 2H hit from an UG weapon?
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    Post by Rynn Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:08 pm

    I really need to fix that bookmark. I handed the build over in an in-accurate way.
    Not catarina, but smough's chest piece.
    http://mmdks.com/47ev
    And the DGH is a placeholder to ensure you can hold a particular amount of weight; IE: enough to use virtually any combo of weapons.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by DPSMurphy Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:18 pm

    I can confirm that when you got crazy high defense, **** does not work how it quite should or expected. Did some resistance/defense research recently, man that stat is balls (Was testing the rumor that you get a static 1% buff to damage taken in PvE).

    Also how do ya get permission to update the wiki/anyone mind updating it? Got some new simple data for the Blue Ring Tearstone. First off, it doesn't give the % boost to everything which is kinda odd. It does it for ALL armor, humanity, general level defense (resistance too) BUT will not work in conjunction with the Ring of Steel Protection. That will just give it the flat 50 points bonus.

    I then fought the Tarus Demon amoured up to the MAX (636 at Lv18 when BlueRingedUp)! You can tank EVERYTHING he does. Even the big jump up he does that does not do %damage which the bosses moves sometimes does... like you could tank 6 in a row with default HP.

    Then I fought havel... hard to tell with current footage without retesting. But maxed out AND blocked with 5% breakthrough dam on shield he almost one shot me. I think it might of made him stronger. Simple to retest, just get same shield on another char. But enough words, maybe I should video it.
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    Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)  Empty Re: Reason why higher AR does much more damage then it seems like it should. (And more defense means more damage taken?)

    Post by Carphil Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:22 pm

    Nice info. If I wasn't so lazy I'd remake some of my very old 40 STR/70END builds silly

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