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Knight Alundil
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    A question about stability.

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    Post by ManiacDiscord Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:18 pm

    Has anyone figured out a way to calculate how much endurance is lost at different stability levels to different attacks? I am thinking about using small shields but I do not know how much stability I am going to need in the average pvp encounter, or pve for that matter.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:59 pm

    Its not an issue really. Stamina regenerates to quickly for guard breaks to be a real problem, even with small shields. They work just fine.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:03 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Its not an issue really. Stamina regenerates to quickly for guard breaks to be a real problem, even with small shields. They work just fine.

    I have no idea about the OP but this statement is reaaaaaaaally wrong lol Guard breaks a large part of how I pvp sometimes.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:11 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Its not an issue really. Stamina regenerates to quickly for guard breaks to be a real problem, even with small shields. They work just fine.

    It may not be an issue but you didn't answer his question. If you don't know, just say that you don't know.

    I haven't explicitly tested it, Discord, so I'm not positive. Sorry.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:11 pm

    It shouldn't matter that much, but you shouldn't try to block with small shields unless you really have to, it's better to parry or evade. If you're going to be blocking, I'd want about 65 stability minimum, 70 is super viable and at 80 pretty much nothing will break your guard. My favorite shield for turtling is the SK Shield, it has huge stability when +5, I can tank two BKGA hits while poking three times with a rapier and still be able to roll away.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:14 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:It shouldn't matter that much, but you shouldn't try to block with small shields unless you really have to, it's better to parry or evade. If you're going to be blocking, I'd want about 65 stability minimum, 70 is super viable and at 80 pretty much nothing will break your guard. My favorite shield for turtling is the SK Shield, it has huge stability when +5, I can tank two BKGA hits while poking three times with a rapier and still be able to roll away.

    Well, Grass Crest Shield only gets up to 63 stability, but its stamina regen more than makes up for it.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:16 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:It shouldn't matter that much, but you shouldn't try to block with small shields unless you really have to, it's better to parry or evade. If you're going to be blocking, I'd want about 65 stability minimum, 70 is super viable and at 80 pretty much nothing will break your guard. My favorite shield for turtling is the SK Shield, it has huge stability when +5, I can tank two BKGA hits while poking three times with a rapier and still be able to roll away.

    Well, Grass Crest Shield only gets up to 63 stability, but its stamina regen more than makes up for it.

    Remember the 95 phys resist though, so it lets in a little on all attacks. If we're talking arena-

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    Post by Ghadis_God Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:17 pm

    I'd say the GCS is the minimum for actually blocking attacks in PvP. I won't take a big hit on it though, I like my stamina.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:18 pm

    I hope they change that for the DLC, it makes health regen miracles overpowered. No player can realistically expect to go on a long winning streak having their health get drained little by little after every battle.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:20 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I hope they change that for the DLC, it makes health regen miracles overpowered. No player can realistically expect to go on a long winning streak having their health get drained little by little after every battle.

    It's not TERRIBLE. It works out ok and makes you think about your build a bit more. Though spells like PW make it hard lol
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:22 pm

    The only reliable way I've seen to guard break is to kick, and most common weapons arn't fast enough to strike before they recover from the stagger and block or dodge out, maybe parry.

    I have no Idea who you're fighting, but In all of the pvp I've seen where both parties knew what they were doing, guard breaking is rare and an inneffective strategy. It just ends in a dodge out or a parry.

    You're fine with a small shield as long as you arn't trying to turtle OP.



    No I don't have a formula but he explicitly stated he was considering small shields and didn't know if the stability would be an issue. My response was to assure him that small shields work quite well.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:26 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I hope they change that for the DLC, it makes health regen miracles overpowered. No player can realistically expect to go on a long winning streak having their health get drained little by little after every battle.

    It's not TERRIBLE. It works out ok and makes you think about your build a bit more. Though spells like PW make it hard lol

    But if I don't want to add said things to my build I shouldn't be forced to do so. Oh, well, maybe what I'll do is I'll create a build for arena PvP to be set up for that stuff, and just stick to the Burg/other PvP hotspots and user-covenant wars/events for my other builds.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:31 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I hope they change that for the DLC, it makes health regen miracles overpowered. No player can realistically expect to go on a long winning streak having their health get drained little by little after every battle.

    It's not TERRIBLE. It works out ok and makes you think about your build a bit more. Though spells like PW make it hard lol

    But if I don't want to add said things to my build I shouldn't be forced to do so. Oh, well, maybe what I'll do is I'll create a build for arena PvP to be set up for that stuff, and just stick to the Burg/other PvP hotspots and user-covenant wars/events for my other builds.

    Oh nono sorry I didn't mean add/change your build, I just mean you migh
    end up changing the way you play it. I haven't changed anything on my
    main except I play more aggressively. It's hard to explaine what I'm
    meaning... uhm... I dont know. You'll know what I mean once you've
    played it big grin
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    Post by BLA1NE Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:45 pm

    Not only do you recover stamina fast enough, but anyone who spams attacks into your shield is just begging to get parried. So, for that reason, I'd recommend small shields in PvP. You shouldn't need to block more than 1 or 2 hits at a time, which will give you enough time to recover the lost stamina. And if your opponent is attacking your shield 2-3 times in a row, then you need to parry that! Heater shield is great for that.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:00 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:Not only do you recover stamina fast enough, but anyone who spams attacks into your shield is just begging to get parried. So, for that reason, I'd recommend small shields in PvP. You shouldn't need to block more than 1 or 2 hits at a time, which will give you enough time to recover the lost stamina. And if your opponent is attacking your shield 2-3 times in a row, then you need to parry that! Heater shield is great for that.

    It's not only attacks from a weapon that can lower stamina towards a guard break.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:11 pm

    Yeah, stamina management is fairly basic though. Unless you have some secret technique to break guards, I'll stick to my statement, that its not a big deal and small shields work just fine.

    If you do hava a secret technique I'll still stick to my statement because I'm not aware of it so I doubt its common knowledge.

    As I said, kicks can do it, but even then its hard to take advantage of because dodging out of kick spam isn't hard and it still won't work against a decent player unless they've never encountered it before and so they don't have a counter.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:12 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Yeah, stamina management is fairly basic though. Unless you have some secret technique to break guards, I'll stick to my statement, that its not a big deal and small shields work just fine.

    If you do hava a secret technique I'll still stick to my statement because I'm not aware of it so I doubt its common knowledge.

    As I said, kicks can do it, but even then its hard to take advantage of because dodging out of kick spam isn't hard and it still won't work against a decent player unless they've never encountered it before and so they don't have a counter.

    Dont have any kind of "secret" technique, just not going to spill my tactics all over the forums when people clearly don't know them happy
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    Post by ManiacDiscord Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:19 pm

    All good input, but to clarify a bit more, I meant the smaller end shields like small leather and effigy shield. My main question would have to be what is the minimum stabilty needed to block medium/heavy attacks. (most of the small shields cap stability around 50) I want to try lighter shields to make more room for armor weight wise.
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    Post by Spurgun Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:24 pm

    Use a heater shield. 2 weight and enough stability to tank any attack, plus it has the fast parry, and 100 % physical reduction.
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    Post by ManiacDiscord Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:27 pm

    Spurgun wrote:Use a heater shield. 2 weight and enough stability to tank any attack, plus it has the fast parry, and 100 % physical reduction.

    Unless it is different from other medium shields, or a typo on the item screen, I am pretty sure it has the same parry as other medium shields.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:32 pm

    ManiacDiscord wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:Use a heater shield. 2 weight and enough stability to tank any attack, plus it has the fast parry, and 100 % physical reduction.

    Unless it is different from other medium shields, or a typo on the item screen, I am pretty sure it has the same parry as other medium shields.

    Heater Shield has fast parry, as does the Wooden Shield, etc...
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    Post by Spurgun Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:34 pm

    Yep. the difference isn't big, but it's there. In my experience it's easier to parry with it.
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    Post by ManiacDiscord Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:37 pm

    I will test them out on a new character, maybe I will upgrade them to 14+, max out stamina, and test out how they fare against Havel and his dragon tooth.

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