That One Line from Solaire

TranceQuina wrote:Hello, new here. So, light spoiler? Do I even need to use that word here?

Well, I do love the idea that Solaire ISN'T Gwyn's firstborn and he's basically there as a way for From to mess with us, but there's one phrase that's currently sticking out at me and making me wonder.

"Now that I am Undead..."

Whether the Darksign appears on a person before or after they've died for the first time I'm not sure, but if "Undead" is simply the term for anyone branded with it, and if it appears during their natural life, you COULD take this line to infer that before he was "an Undead," he was something else, say, a god. What backs this up for me is that there are plenty of "Undead" NPC's that look plenty healthy and sane. How are we to know which of these people have ever died in the first place?

The choice counterpoint would be the female merchant's line, "Nothing good ever happened to me in life, but now that I'm Undead, I've never been happier!"

However, this wouldn't be the first example of a term in Dark Souls with more than one meaning. Like so many other parts of this story, the answer seems to be hidden in the semantics. My central question is: When does the Darksign first appear? At birth? At death? Somewhere in life? I hate to jump to such speculations because of a question that, in all probability, the answer for is staring me in the face, and I hope I haven't wasted anyone's time reading this.

If anyone knows the answer to this question (and can give sources) or has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear! Thanks, and thanks for having me here!

TranceQuina wrote:Hello, new here. So, light spoiler? Do I even need to use that word here?

Well, I do love the idea that Solaire ISN'T Gwyn's firstborn and he's basically there as a way for From to mess with us, but there's one phrase that's currently sticking out at me and making me wonder.

"Now that I am Undead..."

Whether the Darksign appears on a person before or after they've died for the first time I'm not sure, but if "Undead" is simply the term for anyone branded with it, and if it appears during their natural life, you COULD take this line to infer that before he was "an Undead," he was something else, say, a god. What backs this up for me is that there are plenty of "Undead" NPC's that look plenty healthy and sane. How are we to know which of these people have ever died in the first place?

The choice counterpoint would be the female merchant's line, "Nothing good ever happened to me in life, but now that I'm Undead, I've never been happier!"

However, this wouldn't be the first example of a term in Dark Souls with more than one meaning. Like so many other parts of this story, the answer seems to be hidden in the semantics. My central question is: When does the Darksign first appear? At birth? At death? Somewhere in life? I hate to jump to such speculations because of a question that, in all probability, the answer for is staring me in the face, and I hope I haven't wasted anyone's time reading this.

If anyone knows the answer to this question (and can give sources) or has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear! Thanks, and thanks for having me here!

My response to you could be seen as major spoilers about the end of the game etc. I’m pretty new to the forum myself and have not yet learned how to use the spoiler box (my apologizes). Also, my response to you is heavy speculation so please take it with a grain of salt or use it to make up your mind about your Dark Souls experience. If you don’t want to see anything please do not scroll down anymore. Enjoy my poor man’s Spoiler warning.
*Edit As soon as I posted I figured it out yay go me
SPOILERS BELOW >_>

Spoiler:

Wade_Wilson wrote:Don't forget the depths key; such a small, yet significant item. It makes reference to turning people undead and sending them into the depths as a punishment - you don't even have to bring the curse on yourself, others can do it for you!

CaligoIllioneus wrote:The Key to the Depths? It says

Key opening the door from the lower
Undead Burg to the Depths.

Those banished from the Undead Burg eke out
their existence in the Depths, a damp lair
with no trace of sunlight. Nearly half of
the Depths form a perilous flooded labyrinth.

I don't think it refers to people getting exiled because they are "made" undead...Everyone in the Undead Burg is undead anyways, it seems to me that they get exiled by other various causes that aren't expanded upon...maybe that's where they sent the first hollows?

Spoiler:

Dante_000 wrote:One thing though, I don't believe that to be Havel in the Watch tower, Since going from the item description of Havels ring which he drops, says something to the effect of, Havel's men wore the ring to express faith in their leader and to carry a heavier load.

And this post from Dough Boy.

Spoiler:

Anyway, If you listen to the Crestfallen warrior, He says how Hollowing happens, the fact you are undead means exactly that, you are the living dead, Which I'm assuming is caused by the Dark soul thus the exiling, since Gwyn and the other Lords are very suspicious of the dark soul, now Hollowing happens when you lose the last part of yourself, when all hope is gone and you have no Humanity left.

CaligoIllioneus wrote:I subscribe to the theory that links Havel to the occult conspiracy...my opinion is that he was locked in that basement when he was undead and then he hollowed because of the isolation.

I think the confusion between "undead" and "hollow" comes from the "Reverse Hollowing" action at a bonfire (and people often colloquially call "hollow form" to when you look like a zombie). "Reverse Hollowing" means "Reverse the process of hollowing"...the character is never actually hollow. What is very vague is what actually causes someone to go hollow. I don't think it only depends on the humanity sprites but on some psychological aspects as well. And yes, I'm going off subject too sorry.