by Deathsitexxi Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:20 pmI’ve speculated numerous times that the First Flame is in
fact, time itself. The other day in one of my threads Shkar brought up an
interesting point, one I had thought about before but not as in-depth as Shkar.
I’m going to put what he said in a spoiler box to save room, however; it is not
spoiler related.
So let’s get started in researching this theory!
First off I’d like to mention fractalization again. As far
as the world goes we know that the first flame (world’s soul/time) came about
during the age of ancients (neutral/grey/unmoving). During this time, positives
(white) and negatives (black) we’re born. I.e. Life/Death, Heat/Cold,
Light/Dark, Natural/Unnatural, Sun/Moon etc…. Please do not confuse “positive”
and “negative” with good or bad as in I’m only using these words to show
opposites. Also, when I say the word time I do not mean time in the traditional
sense, I’m talking about a Life/Death Cycle.
With that being mentioned let’s look at Gwyn and his
children. His first born was the epitome of the positive (white,sun) while his
last born Gwyndolin is the very opposite and represents negative
(black,moon). Gwyn would represent the
neutral/grey/unmoving. Let’s look a little further back before we get to Gywn. The
reason I use the word unmoving is because of the nature of the world before the
first flame/world’s soul was awakened. For example, the Arch Trees and Ancient
Dragons were both made of Stone (Reference: Caduceus Round Shield, Demon’s
Hammer, Dark Souls Intro, Stone Dragon of Ash Lake). When you think of stone you think of
something that is a fixture, it doesn’t age in the same way that we associate
that word with. With nothing to attack it or move it, it is “Everlasting”. This stone was a part of the world. The Arch
Trees roots went to its very core and can be considered a part of the planet
itself. The Stone Dragons I believe were born from the Arch Trees, and
therefore also a part of the planet. However, from this point of view you could
also look at the Arch Trees and Stone Dragons as parasites…However, I reserve
that name for a different group of Serpents…
The big question that
will more than likely never be answered is “Where did the First Flame come
from?” If at the time, the only things around during the age of ancients were
the Arch Trees and Stone Dragons, one could assume that the First Flame came
from one of the Dragons. But what would cause an unmoving neutral stone to
breath fire? I think somewhere in the roots of the Arch Trees coiling around
the core of the world were the Primordial Serpents, Parasites in the darkness…
In an attempt to remove these Serpents that were disturbing the “natural”
balance of things one or more of the dragons breathed fire underground where
they believed the serpents were hiding. From this “Chaos” the First Flame was
born, and started a chain of events that we see as the Age of Ancients to the
Age of Fire to the Age of Dark/continuation of the Age of Fire. Thus the
“time”cycle was born, and the natural/unmoving stone flow of time was distorted.
So this flame coming from a Stone Dragon, which was born
from the Stone Arch Trees indirectly, came from the planet in defense of
itself. However, these parasites were not as primitive as their name would lead
one to believe. When the embers of the soul of the world (which are seen
throughout the intro) created disparity and created humans, the serpents saw
their chance to seize power. Weather
they lead the primeval humans to obtain the Lords Souls or not is up for
debate, but in the end the result was the same. With Gywn, Nito, and the Witch
disturbing the natural flow of things the planet/dragons/arch trees had to
defend themselves and return things to the way they were. This also explains
why the Witch of Izalith and Nito are attacking the Arch Trees, because the
Dragons are born from them. In addition,
I’ve speculated that Seath the Scaleless was once human but after researching
this I might resend my former belief…because with what we’ve said above his
existence is explained by the First Flame. He is the anti-dragon, the opposite
of his brethren, scale-less and “mortal”.
There is an undisclosed time between when Gywn and the other
Lords obtained their souls until the end of the Dragon wars. In that
undisclosed amount of time nations were constructed and fell and Frampt
befriended Gywn. In addition, the Dark Soul was obtained by the Pygmy and in
some way shattered and spread. With all we’ve talked about we have yet to
discuss the Dark Soul. Its existence is explained by the disparity talked about
in the intro. I believe that the Dark Soul’s creation was a result of the First
Flame and did not come from the Flame itself. Let me explain, if you look at
Gywn’s hands in the intro, they look almost burned. I believe Gywn pulled his
Lord Soul directly from the First Flame and caused embers and fragments of the
First Flame to move about. Also, in the intro we see what looks like a ring of
flame surrounding the area where the Undead like creatures come from. Flame
gives off light, which in turn creates shadow. In the middle of this circle was
concentrated shadow, and it was here the Pygmy found the Dark Soul. Meaning the
Dark Soul indirectly came from the First Flame and not straight from it, which is
why the Dark Soul is so small when we see it.
I believe this also helps us understand the Dark Sign. I’ve
said before that I believe the Dark Sign is a direct result of the Dark Soul
being shattered and spread across the world. I think this is why the Dark Sign
is a ring of fire; it is a symbol of the birth place of the Dark Soul.
DLC speculation:
When Gywn links the flame it is but a temporary fix, he is
kindling the First Flame in an attempt to boost the power of the soul of the
world. Which he believes would remove the Dark Sign and return the world to his
form of natural order. However, he has been misled this entire time by Frampt
and the true natural power that did exist he personally removed (Arch Trees,
Stone Dragons). We know the world is attempting to revert to the ways of old
when we visit Ash Lake. We see the descendants of the Stone Arch Trees, and a
new Stone Dragon (Reference: Caduceus Round Shield, Ash Lake, Great Hollow,
Stone Dragon items). To get to Ash Lake
we have to go through the “Great Hollow”. Interestingly enough, I believe the
name of this zone is a direct reference to what has happened to the planet. The
First Flame is dying; the world is becoming one “Great Hollow”.
I will post the remainder of this soon, I’ve got a lot more
to speculate on. Thanks Shkar for getting me looking into this it’s very
interesting. I know you won’t agree with most of the things I’m saying and I
understand. I’ll put in all of my item references when I post the final bit of
this.
fact, time itself. The other day in one of my threads Shkar brought up an
interesting point, one I had thought about before but not as in-depth as Shkar.
I’m going to put what he said in a spoiler box to save room, however; it is not
spoiler related.
- Spoiler:
- “But
on that topic, let's switch gears for a moment. Do you know of fractalization?
It's the scientific term for something that appears the same on every level.
When you browse facebook and see those images comparing the division of a cell
to a certain galaxy, this is a (rather weak) example of this. If you look up
fractalization, you can get better examples. But, the point is this: the
powerful souls start to look a LOT like "fire". Look at the lord
souls, Gwyn's soul, and the boss souls. The more powerful ones start to turn a
reddish orange. EVERY soul (normal, boss, lord, and dark) has the
"flaring" effect that people think of when they think of flames.
Compare this to the belief that the world is a giant "organism". If
bigger, stronger souls look like a small fire, what would the soul of the world
look like, and possibly be confused for?
Based on this theory, we can equate everything to a living body. Every human
would be a sort of "cell", like a white blood cell, for instance.
Now, what happens when the body starts to die from, say, cold or hunger? The
body starts to shut down body processes that aren't as important in order to
try to save itself as a whole. So, you lose heat to your fingers and toes, or
your body starts to cannibalize its own tissues, all in an effort to keep the
brain alive. It literally starts to kill itself off to try to save itself. Now,
if the world is a creature, and the world is dying (the flame is its soul, and
thus, its life source.), then what would it start to kill off in order to try
to survive? Now, this process is obviously a bit muddled since humans have a
stronger sense of survival than the normal body cell and can, as such, mess
with this process, but this is simply a way of explaining this theory.”
So let’s get started in researching this theory!
First off I’d like to mention fractalization again. As far
as the world goes we know that the first flame (world’s soul/time) came about
during the age of ancients (neutral/grey/unmoving). During this time, positives
(white) and negatives (black) we’re born. I.e. Life/Death, Heat/Cold,
Light/Dark, Natural/Unnatural, Sun/Moon etc…. Please do not confuse “positive”
and “negative” with good or bad as in I’m only using these words to show
opposites. Also, when I say the word time I do not mean time in the traditional
sense, I’m talking about a Life/Death Cycle.
With that being mentioned let’s look at Gwyn and his
children. His first born was the epitome of the positive (white,sun) while his
last born Gwyndolin is the very opposite and represents negative
(black,moon). Gwyn would represent the
neutral/grey/unmoving. Let’s look a little further back before we get to Gywn. The
reason I use the word unmoving is because of the nature of the world before the
first flame/world’s soul was awakened. For example, the Arch Trees and Ancient
Dragons were both made of Stone (Reference: Caduceus Round Shield, Demon’s
Hammer, Dark Souls Intro, Stone Dragon of Ash Lake). When you think of stone you think of
something that is a fixture, it doesn’t age in the same way that we associate
that word with. With nothing to attack it or move it, it is “Everlasting”. This stone was a part of the world. The Arch
Trees roots went to its very core and can be considered a part of the planet
itself. The Stone Dragons I believe were born from the Arch Trees, and
therefore also a part of the planet. However, from this point of view you could
also look at the Arch Trees and Stone Dragons as parasites…However, I reserve
that name for a different group of Serpents…
The big question that
will more than likely never be answered is “Where did the First Flame come
from?” If at the time, the only things around during the age of ancients were
the Arch Trees and Stone Dragons, one could assume that the First Flame came
from one of the Dragons. But what would cause an unmoving neutral stone to
breath fire? I think somewhere in the roots of the Arch Trees coiling around
the core of the world were the Primordial Serpents, Parasites in the darkness…
In an attempt to remove these Serpents that were disturbing the “natural”
balance of things one or more of the dragons breathed fire underground where
they believed the serpents were hiding. From this “Chaos” the First Flame was
born, and started a chain of events that we see as the Age of Ancients to the
Age of Fire to the Age of Dark/continuation of the Age of Fire. Thus the
“time”cycle was born, and the natural/unmoving stone flow of time was distorted.
So this flame coming from a Stone Dragon, which was born
from the Stone Arch Trees indirectly, came from the planet in defense of
itself. However, these parasites were not as primitive as their name would lead
one to believe. When the embers of the soul of the world (which are seen
throughout the intro) created disparity and created humans, the serpents saw
their chance to seize power. Weather
they lead the primeval humans to obtain the Lords Souls or not is up for
debate, but in the end the result was the same. With Gywn, Nito, and the Witch
disturbing the natural flow of things the planet/dragons/arch trees had to
defend themselves and return things to the way they were. This also explains
why the Witch of Izalith and Nito are attacking the Arch Trees, because the
Dragons are born from them. In addition,
I’ve speculated that Seath the Scaleless was once human but after researching
this I might resend my former belief…because with what we’ve said above his
existence is explained by the First Flame. He is the anti-dragon, the opposite
of his brethren, scale-less and “mortal”.
There is an undisclosed time between when Gywn and the other
Lords obtained their souls until the end of the Dragon wars. In that
undisclosed amount of time nations were constructed and fell and Frampt
befriended Gywn. In addition, the Dark Soul was obtained by the Pygmy and in
some way shattered and spread. With all we’ve talked about we have yet to
discuss the Dark Soul. Its existence is explained by the disparity talked about
in the intro. I believe that the Dark Soul’s creation was a result of the First
Flame and did not come from the Flame itself. Let me explain, if you look at
Gywn’s hands in the intro, they look almost burned. I believe Gywn pulled his
Lord Soul directly from the First Flame and caused embers and fragments of the
First Flame to move about. Also, in the intro we see what looks like a ring of
flame surrounding the area where the Undead like creatures come from. Flame
gives off light, which in turn creates shadow. In the middle of this circle was
concentrated shadow, and it was here the Pygmy found the Dark Soul. Meaning the
Dark Soul indirectly came from the First Flame and not straight from it, which is
why the Dark Soul is so small when we see it.
I believe this also helps us understand the Dark Sign. I’ve
said before that I believe the Dark Sign is a direct result of the Dark Soul
being shattered and spread across the world. I think this is why the Dark Sign
is a ring of fire; it is a symbol of the birth place of the Dark Soul.
DLC speculation:
- Spoiler:
- I
think we actually get to see this happen in the DLC that has come out. When
Manus’s “humanity” goes wild and we defeat him, we shatter the vessel of the
Dark Soul and spread the Dark Soul/Humanity thus spreading the Dark Sign.
Meaning we (the player character) are the reason (accidently) for the spread of
the Dark Sign. Again the events of time were manipulated by the Primordial
Serpents….Parasites of this world. This is further proved by the way you are
addressed in the new content. Every NPC refers to you as “human” not hollow, or
Undead, but human.
When Gywn links the flame it is but a temporary fix, he is
kindling the First Flame in an attempt to boost the power of the soul of the
world. Which he believes would remove the Dark Sign and return the world to his
form of natural order. However, he has been misled this entire time by Frampt
and the true natural power that did exist he personally removed (Arch Trees,
Stone Dragons). We know the world is attempting to revert to the ways of old
when we visit Ash Lake. We see the descendants of the Stone Arch Trees, and a
new Stone Dragon (Reference: Caduceus Round Shield, Ash Lake, Great Hollow,
Stone Dragon items). To get to Ash Lake
we have to go through the “Great Hollow”. Interestingly enough, I believe the
name of this zone is a direct reference to what has happened to the planet. The
First Flame is dying; the world is becoming one “Great Hollow”.
I will post the remainder of this soon, I’ve got a lot more
to speculate on. Thanks Shkar for getting me looking into this it’s very
interesting. I know you won’t agree with most of the things I’m saying and I
understand. I’ll put in all of my item references when I post the final bit of
this.
Last edited by Deathsitexxi on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
