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    @@Karmic justice damage test results...@@

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    • Post n°1

    @@Karmic justice damage test results...@@ Empty @@Karmic justice damage test results...@@

    Post by Red Rosie Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:09 am

    Hello all, some test results here to clear up any questions on Karmic justice and its damage modifiers...

    The tests were done on the crossbow guys at the sunlight alter on NG 7...

    Key -

    On its own

    Ring of the suns first born

    power within

    Red tear active

    Suns ring / power within / red tear



    10 faith / Canvas talisman (112 MagAdjust)

    = 211 / 275 / 296 / 360 / 635


    50 faith / Darkmoon talisman (226 MagAdjust)

    = 519 / 655 / 727 / 865 / 1505



    In addition to this I tried every combination of offhand and main hand magic equipment, as I heard that was a possible damage modifier...

    Such as :

    - tin crystal in main / talisman in off (and vice versa)...

    - Ascended pyro flame...

    - Manus catalyst at 50 STR...

    And nothing made a difference at all, so in conclusion, the damage of karmic justice is solely dependent on your magic adjust (and red tear / power within) just like every other spell in the game =)


    Well What is it




    Last edited by Red Rosie Sugar on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo in the title)
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    • Post n°2

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    Post by Automancer Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:57 am

    That's awesome stuff, Rosie! Thank you!
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    • Post n°3

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    Post by Carphil Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:56 am

    Thanks for the testing. Such an underrated spell
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    • Post n°4

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    Post by Seignar Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:26 am

    In addition to this I tried every combination of
    offhand and main hand magic equipment, as I heard that was a possible
    damage modifier...
    The "damage modifier" is simply that this move is bugged and will only read the magic adjustment of your main hand. Read the quote below for details or just click the signature.
    Seignar wrote:Unless you have not been keeping up in a certain
    thread, there seems to be a bug on KJ that renders it useless most of
    the time. If you ever plan on using KJ, read on to get the most out of
    it:

    Karmic Justice is bugged, lets out get that out of the way.
    There is an error in it's coding that causes Karmic Justice to only
    calculate and be boosted by the Magic in your currently on RIGHT HAND at
    the time of detonation. What this means is that there will be no
    difference in damage if you're using Karmic Justice with Velka's
    Talisman (At 8 INT) or using it with a Darkmoon Talisman (At 40 faith)
    in your left-hand. So, if you want to use it, NEVER cast it on your
    left-hand.

    BUT, this leads to a COMPLETELY
    unexpected phenomenon! Karmic Justice will take the magic adjustment of
    ANYTHING and make it the determining factor in its power when it is
    triggered. This means that, you can cast it, then switch -or hold at the
    time- to an item with a more powerful magic adjustment to increase its
    potential. This is the reason that this player was able to deal immense damage by using the TCC.

    There
    is more. This spell doesn't just calculate magic adjustment, but also
    standard magic damage. Weapons, I'm talking weapons buff this miracle.
    Not fire or lightning, only magic. If a weapon has NATURAL magic damage,
    then Karmic Justice will treat that weapon's magic AR as spell
    adjustment, granted to a slightly lesser extent than how it treats real
    magic adjustment. Thankfully, this DOES NOT take into account magic
    buffs, but rather strictly the natural magic AR + whatever stat scaling
    boost you have. It also does not take in Magic Damage added by Moonlight
    Arrows.

    For the sake to make sure this could not be abused (and
    should we be ready), I tested it with Dragon Stone Glitch and...IT DOES
    NOT WORK! @@Karmic justice damage test results...@@ 639795459
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    • Post n°5

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    Post by Red Rosie Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:30 am

    Interesting stuff...

    However my tests this morning revealed otherwise, so I can only guess it has been patched in someway

    Shrug
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    Post by Seignar Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:35 am

    Do you play on the PS3? If so, then I guess this thing has been *secretly* patched...
    If not, well...PS3 is buggy?
    I'll check later.
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    Post by Automancer Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:38 am

    She's on the Xbox.
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    • Post n°8

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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:45 am

    So that TCC thing with KJ is just a mere myth?
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    • Post n°9

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    Post by Red Rosie Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:52 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:So that TCC thing with KJ is just a mere myth?

    I dont know about what it used to do, but it didnt make a difference today when I tested

    In the video, Sansive gets big damage because he has high MagAdjust and boosts from dusk crown etc, it may well have had nothing to do with the catalyst, I certainly got as much damage as they got without it

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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:08 pm

    Were you wearing the crown?
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    Post by Red Rosie Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:22 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Were you wearing the crown?

    Nope that was the only thing I didnt use, although the suns ring and PW and red tear increased damage so I would say dusk crown also will

    The biggest damage modifiers were power within and red tear, but having both active together is pretty un realistic...

    I would say that with one of those 2, along with suns ring and dusk crown will be plenty enough to get some decent damage out of it

    But again I couldnt find any combination of talismans / catalysts / pyro flame in either hand that made a difference to the damage at all...
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    Post by lordgodofhell Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:06 pm

    Thanks for doing this and confirming karmics relative uselessness for me happy

    I was also unaware of the fact that one could activate both power within and karmic justice simultaneously.
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    Post by Red Rosie Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:03 am

    lordgodofhell wrote:Thanks for doing this and confirming karmics relative uselessness for me happy

    I was also unaware of the fact that one could activate both power within and karmic justice simultaneously.


    ...That has reminded me.... You cant!

    Ok forget the power within results, I used a program to simulate the explosion and work out the damage so I didnt spend all day waiting for an activation, and completely forgot about that!!

    *waits for down votes*
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    • Post n°14

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    Post by LoreFF Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:21 am

    nice info will have to try out karmic justice never really used that spell. Hows the result with grass crest shield ? does it activate a lot ?

    + to rep for the hard work.
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:48 am

    LoreFF wrote:nice info will have to try out karmic justice never really used that spell. Hows the result with grass crest shield ? does it activate a lot ?

    + to rep for the hard work.

    I'm sure it would, but since GCS has 95% block it would take longer than if you used something weaker like, say, a Target Shield.
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    Post by tyrjhn Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:13 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    LoreFF wrote:nice info will have to try out karmic justice never really used that spell. Hows the result with grass crest shield ? does it activate a lot ?

    + to rep for the hard work.

    I'm sure it would, but since GCS has 95% block it would take longer than if you used something weaker like, say, a Target Shield.

    thats completely false it takes 5 hits to trigger karmic justice. doesn´t matter if its chip damage or direct hit or during i-frames 5 hits=explosion (this makes it perfect counter against dark magic)
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:20 am

    You're probably right. I'm not a KJ expert I just thought it activated off of damage received.
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    Post by Red Rosie Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:10 pm

    Ill ask in chat for a volunteer later on today and get them to help me test activation times

    Such as how many clean hits with a katana vs how many blocked with grass crest / dark hand etc

    And hopefully there will be some consistency!

    My goal is to be able to put a number of hits to each kind of weapon, or a set % of health etc so it can be predicted mid fight

    Ill update how it goes!
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    Post by skarekrow13 Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:42 pm

    I'll also second the five hits to trigger theory. That's the least amount in all my testing. Any kind of damage and even "hits during i-frame" count. Roll through a homing soul mass? Awesome.


    However, your testing is more meticulous than mine was particularly since I couldn't summon a helper. Look forward to seeing more. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some crazy fast weapons (daggers or Ricard's) can get it in four.
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    Post by ChizFreak Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm

    TCC alters Karmic Justice. It's obviously not the same thing because you said used a program to simulate the explosion instead of actually casting the spell (hence why you have results of 10 FTH which are impossible to achieve without hacks, KJ requires 20 FTH to use minimum).

    The main rule of KJ is: doesn't matter with what you cast it, it matters what you're holding in your main hand when the explosion is triggered. I have tested that even holding a normal weapon modifies it's damage. Holding a Magic Weapon seems to boost damage higher than holding weapons without magic damage. But the best way to acquire high damage is using catalysts or talismans because MAG ADJ seems to boost damage way more than other means. The weapon with the highest MAG ADJ possible in the game is the TCC with 300ish, while the Darkmoon has 220ish.

    You have to hold it in your main hand. Best way to trigger it is by using a shield that doesn't block 100% phys damage, as others said (though it's not 100% sure) the explosion is triggered after receiving 5 times any kind of damage. Because when you block with a non 100% phys def shield you receive damage, doing so 5 times still triggers the explosion while having received tiny damage.

    Dusk Crown + Firstborn + Redtearstone + TCC + block attacks with non 100% def shield is the best combo.

    People tend to forget we already done such tests :evil::

    https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t15533-testing-of-karmic-justice-need-candidates

    I even calculated multipliers, the multiplioer is that every 1 point of MAG ADJ the miracles does 2,68 points of damage (aprox.).

    And the most important thing to keep in mind, is that because this miracle triggers while an enemy is attacking you, there will be several times where you will get a COUNTER ATTACK with the miracle, meaning it will do more damage than it normal does (yes spells can make counter attacks in case you didn't know).

    Me and Seignar (separately not together) made several tests of this.

    I'm 100% sure doesn't matter how much damage you receive in order to trigger the explosion. Neither matters your HP left or anything similar.

    Finally (as you said) the results about Power Within doesn't matter because are impossible to achieve, Karmic Justice is a buff, you can't cast PW on top of that. Don't mean to be rude, but the fact you used that program to simulate the explosion pretty much nullifies all your results.

    PS: Dual wielding catalysts or talimans (or anything) doesn't change the damage of KJ, only what you're holding in your right hand modifies damage.
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    Post by Red Rosie Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:17 pm

    I posted a topic asking for some info on KJ a while ago, no one replied so I thought I would do my best to test something...

    Apologies that its kinda null, didnt realise it had already been done, or that the programmed one would not work the same, everything else through that seems to work the same as normal...

    Theres some good detail on that thread you have there, but it still seems that we need some tests on what exactly sets it off, people always say "block with grass crest shield till it goes off" but realistically, anyone who is gonna spam attacks on a shield when you have KJ active isnt even worth beating lol

    Id like to know exactly how many hits from a set weapon type etc, blocked or un blocked, how many combusts, how many shots with a bow, and most importantly if its consistent - so could be better predicted
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    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:35 pm

    More testing never hurt anyone.

    Like Logan says, "A great pool of knowledge, the fruits of superior wisdom and an unquenchable desire for the truth. Study is invigorating!"

    ...come to think of it, Logan may actually be a bad example. lol!
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    Post by largestember Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:19 pm

    If the result of your tests are true, it must mean the bug was patched or something. I need to try that then. Btw, how do you use KJ with 10 faith?
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    Post by ChizFreak Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:23 pm

    largestember wrote:If the result of your tests are true, it must mean the bug was patched or something. I need to try that then. Btw, how do you use KJ with 10 faith?

    Read my post.

    It wasn't patched, and you can't use KJ with 10 FTH, she used a program to simulate the explosion. Same reason why she was able to use Power Within with KJ. KJ is a self-buff so it can't be used with Power Within either.
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    Post by T-King-667 Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:19 pm

    I faught a dude yesterday who used kj, and i hit his shield 3 times (he was constantly blocking) and the spell went off and nearly killed me. Now that i know it works when you block, sounds like its would be effective against katana users.
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