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    Co-op is ridiculous

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    Co-op is ridiculous Empty Co-op is ridiculous

    Post by Seignar Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:25 pm

    Guess how many people I have invaded in the Depths with phantoms? A dozen.
    Guess how many of them were in the NG cycle (which means they are at my level)? 9
    Guess how many had phantoms with power equivalent to griefers? 8.


    Come on, people! Do they seriously think they are some kind of knight in shining armor!? All they do is pulverize anyone and anything in the level indiscriminately. It isn't like they are just there to "Protect against the Griefers" because they treat anything with the same sense of aggression and mercilessness. They don't let the host have fun because they can't do anything. They don't let the invader have fun because they are powerless. They don't even let their fellow comrades have fun because 1 is all they need!

    So I have to ask what do some of the more experienced players think about this? Do you summon them? I sure don't if I don't consider them *within the level's range*, because full Giant's at SL 20 seems a bit...off. There were some hosts that were in newbie armor, yet seemed to have Elemental weapons [Lightning] along with their phantom...uhu, I can give 3 guesses as to where they got it from. Sometimes, it's no wonder why low level is so messed up, but this is both parties fault for never adjusting their power based on the situation.

    It is always an Elemental Phantom, completely uncaring of the fact he/she is completely unbeatable and in God Mode. It is never a phantom that has a back-up anti-griefing weapon like they should, it is always a God Mode phantom that doesn't have a back-up anti-counter-griefing weapon like they should.

    I'm done.
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    Post by RANT Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:38 pm

    lol depths is FULL of griefers so its understandable that pantoms bring everything they got, but yeah they should only use them against invader, I always use the weapons suitable for the place im coop'ing in then switch to an elemental one when the host gets vaded.
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    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:58 pm

    my answer is full giants with 34 str twohanding havels shield with iron flesh or the shield buff on, standing in the hallway that leads to the boss door, also remember to wear the fap ring and lightning res ring. simply put if their gonna be boring jerks, stall them out, slow them down, make their day as miserable as possible. I usually run a str build in the depths anyway so its easy to swap to the above gear if I see twinks.
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    Post by Serious_Much Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:04 pm

    Meh, in the host's opinion you're ruining his game by being there, so I don't think they care.

    A knight in shining armour is someone who saves you, so ganking bros with their fully upgraded equipment and heavy armour are quite literally that.

    I don't really play the game online/human till about sen's fortress to be honest so having people with 'disproportionate gear' then is a bit of a toss up.
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    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:07 pm

    The depths has a weird flow of what is down there and can changed too. Really if you get jerks there just be a jerk to them. Some of those guys love to think they have power but when you show them your power things can go to your favor. Though I guess if the host is not full upgraded but the phantom is I guess that makes sense for the host as it makes it easier to beat the area. Now two full upgraded people is a different story. 
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    Post by Dibsville Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:09 pm

    I summon people for the sole purpose of making the area faster. I have enough experience that I can do the area by myself should I want to, so I see no reason to not summon phantoms, no matter what their weapons are.

    There is an exception to this, though. If I ever take a toon to NG+4 or higher, I stop summoning people since I don't absolutely know I can beat the area at that high. Haven't done it enough times to trust that I can summon someone without having to rely on them.


    Elementals are extremely common in the Depths, because at that point you can get the Divine Ember, as well as unlock Vamos. If they're using Lightning Weapons, that's to be expected since Anor Londo isn't far behind the Depths (in fact, only Blighttown separates them).
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    Post by Animaaal Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:35 pm

    I feel your pain Sieg.

    Something that might make you feel better though is phantoming for Quelaag.

    I got summoned today by a dude with the furysword not in a + game...wonder where he got it?!?!

    Anywho, he kept doing the "Well what is it?" gesture in front of Quelaag's door like some sort of bada$$.  I thought, "This is gonna be quick."  It was......she fire-farted-killed-him.

    I was roflmao.big grin

    But no,  I don't bust out the op'd stuff until its needed.
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    Post by Dibsville Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:37 pm

    Honestly, I try to keep my weapons at +5 until the Depths, where I'll go to +10. 
    I only go +15 or Elementals if I'm being summoned for one of the Four Lords or the DLC.
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    Post by LunarFog Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:59 pm

    To be fair, I think it's kind of good that they don't allow invaders to have their fun.

    Also, as a host, I go out of my way to summon these guys.  It makes going through the game that much quicker, and more often than not, I can't getgood help
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    Post by Sentiel Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:00 pm

    I don't summon, unless I'm a very specific class, like pure caster.
    I want to be bale to handle anything and everything alone , so I don't have to rely on others. If I'm having a hard time, I'd rather bite it and die again and again instead of summoning help. If I summon, it's to help the other guy. To give him some Souls and Humanity, or when I want to have some company.

    However, no matter the reason, if I never summon phantoms with over leveled gear and if I do, I send them home asap.
    It's enough that I can one shot everything. Don't need another hotshot in there doing the same. That ain't fun.

    If I run into any phantoms as a invader, I asume they have over leveled gear and use the same against them. Then I check and see what hosts has. If he's also over leveled we fight, if he's got legit gear, then I switch mine to be on his level and only after that we fight. I don't really care about lives of phantoms, so I'm ruthless with them, but I do care to not ruin hosts experience, or to be unfair to him.
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    Post by Werdax Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:30 am

    I rarely ever summon. Not that I don't want to. In fact, I so dearly want to summon more people. But always when I stand on top of their summon sign, I can't get myself to summon them, because I fear they will take away my fun.

    As for the main topic: Phantom accompanied hosts are the most expected thing in the depths. They are most likely not searching for invaders, but rather trying to push through the level. And I find that perfectly acceptable. I invade said hosts, every now and then, and it mostly ends with me meeting my demise. This is not at all frustrating. When I am outnumbered, its only logical that I am at a disadvantage, and that makes it easy to shake off the defeat.
    The depths are full of griefing invaders, so having a buddy (or a complete stranger) watching your back is not such a bad thing.
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    Post by Marino. Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:31 am

    LunarFog wrote:To be fair, I think it's kind of good that they don't allow invaders to have their fun.

    Also, as a host, I go out of my way to summon these guys.  It makes going through the game that much quicker, and more often than not, I can't getgood help

    For you it might not be a huge deal because you already know the Game inside out, but what about the New Players (yes those still exist) who never get to know Invasions and Co-op because a Phantom is killing everything in sight with his God Gear ? 

    That's not Co-op, it's a "Kill Everything" button .
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    Post by Jansports Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 am

    If A new player isn't enjoying his brightly glowing buddy killing everything for him he can BC them out, Disconnect, or turn the game off for a while. It's not as if these guys are forcing their way into new players games and killing everything in sights while the poor host sobs in a corner over his feebleness. If the host would rather play with people more in line with his current power level. BC and try a new sign. If he wants to join the phantom in extreme depths killing 101 now with 70% more Lightning Katanas, he can send a message asking his friend for some of that sweet looking power. If he's perfectly happy having one of the more tedious areas beaten to a pulp for him while he saves up his souls to splurge on logan's spells as soon as he gets to sen's...he can.

    I've grown rather irrate at the idea that twinked out phantoms "Ruin" the game for other people, because at the begining and end of the day everyone has 100% control over who they play with, you can dashboard every invader you ever see, or BC phantoms halfway through the level if they're just mowing enemies down and revealing secrets to you. No one is forcing these new players to let phantoms run amok in their world, the new players are letting the phantoms run amok in their world. And that's their choice. I'm not going to tell them they're wrong for doing it.
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    Post by Kirk-Barb Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:49 pm

    When playing Dark Souls, you can really only control your actions and thoughts.  You will never...ever control the actions or thoughts of others playing this game.   Maybe influence, but never control.  So stop trying.  Play the game the way you want to play. Yes people will be rocking elemental weapons in the Burg that will most likely kill in one shot.  I know the great combustion combined with the ring and crown certainly will.  You can either adapt or die.

    I take my lumps and give some too. My personal preference is to never use elemental weapons in the Burg or great combustion at beginner levels.  So I die a lot more then I have too because of that.  But that's OK, because it is my choice. I find that I have some real cool fights when I find others of a similar mind and that makes it all good for me.  Sometimes I even manage to kill an elemental wielding, GC spamming, try hard, and then I'm feeling fantastic. For me it is not about the victory, but the challenge.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:36 pm

    I've actually noticed a decrease in twinked out phantoms and a rise in fairly balanced ones. If you think summoning makes the game too easy (as I do think it does) you should step up the Darkwraithing and make life a little more difficult for the hosts.

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