Critical Hit Restrictions?

Would you really want those restrictions for an enemy like Havel? Most players land the BS by dashing in after he swings (which would violate the full stamina restriction). Considering the shield restriction, Havel likes to 2-hand his weapon a lot, so the ability to land a backstab would be largely dependent on his AI.

the restriction of a full stamina bar is near impossible, you rarely ever can have full stamina.

but i love the idea of the shield on your back. i've always wanted that to be a thing. game or not, real world physics of plunging a scyth through someone and them still being able to, move...hitting me in my back, THROUGH my shield always bothered me more. if they just did a damage reduction i'd be ok with it. something in the 80% range at least. 

criticals are always dicy though. make them to difficult and they become pointless. but as dark 1 did it, backstab dances were all to common. i hated myself a little when i would resort to it to kill havel. or anyone. i'd rather see it all but removed from the game. theif class only, and only if your undetected, maybe 
with the fog ring on? and only if you have not struck you opponent yet.

theories abound. but we can only hope.

The best idea I've heard for improving backstabs is that you need full poise to pull them off. If your poise meter is depleted at all you'll just do a normal hit.


Remember that backstabs are meant as a punishment, if someone is estussing and you have to run to backstab them, requiring full stamina would make it impossible to punish them. However you could easily have full poise and still pull this off, you just won't be able to run through an attack for a backstab. And it might even stop with the roll backstabs a bit too.

solution to the ridiculous back stab crazy pvp is the turtle armor xD

Fighting unlocked with horizontal sweeping weapon = extremely impractical to BS.  Most popular weapon is the Zwei for that, but there's no reason you couldn't do it with any assortment of straight swords, curved swords, or something like the Mura.  Kicks are indeed useful as well (I kicked fishers all the time on my spear builds).

mr_no_face wrote:solution to the ridiculous back stab crazy pvp is the turtle armor xD

Those guys from DkS II trailers...
Someone wants to bs you and you bodysmash them. That would be so hilarious in PvP.

That suggestion up there to have to be a thief and use the fog ring and not have a hit first sounds a bit WOWish and we all know what happens when games adapt that approach.

All jolkes aside, I love the BS, no pun intended, in the game, sure the mechanic is thrown off due to lagstabs in PVP, but bar none makes fighting PVE that much more enjoyable. The whole need 100 percent stamina thing would be difficult to use, as each PVP battle would be a BS dance to the death, lol.

All in all I would like to really see the BS stay the same, except making it a bit easier honestly to register BS' on PVE.

I am happy that a shield on the back negates backstabs. I always found a thrust through the shield completely retarded. Of course it should drain all stamina. Its your haymaker you use to end the battle so will obviously put all your force into it. Full stamina required? Dont agree with that. How about full stamina for max damage and reduced damage the lower your stamina is and backstab completely negated below half stamina.

The stamina option is silly really, make it poise based (full poise needed) and make the window smaller and it'll fix itself with the server based system that will be used.

Having full poise means no poise tanking backstab fishing amoungst other things. Check out Vegetas channel he has a good vid on it.

buzzgud wrote:All in all I would like to really see the BS stay the same, except making it a bit easier honestly to register BS' on PVE.

Also seriously? Make it easier? How? The window is currently a 90deg cone out of their backs, making it any easier would mean you'd just about backstab them from the front.

Lol, I'm not saying it like that! I was simply saying sometimes I'm directly behind an enemy in PVE, or a player in PVP honestly, and the BS doesn't register. That's what I was getting at, sometimes I'm like yes BS! Then I just swipe them and I feel like a fool. :/

Either I suck at Back Stabs, or they don't register in the hit box sometimes.

I sort of know what you mean when fighting other players. You end up behind them but when you stab you only get a hit. (Then they while still stood in front of you preform the backstab animation on you. Its BS).

Ya exactly. That's what I was saying, WHAT ARE THESE EVIL SECRETS! Haha.

Derpwraith wrote:If these restrictions sound bad it's only because I'm angry right now.

1. Cannot perform a backstab if the foe has a shield on his/her back

2. Critical Hits to consume ALL stamina (It dishes out the more damage than any other attack)

3. Critical Hits require full stamina

1. No. A. The bs is symbolic. It represents any of the dozens of potentially fatal attacks that any given weapon could do from behind, because the person being bs'd can't see dit to respond. One could just as easily trip you and run stab you straight through the chest from the front or smash your skull with a mace.

B. It would make 2hing weapons like halberds, ultra great swords way overpowered because they can just hack away and you can't do jack monkey squat about it.

2. No. Its not super powerful because you are doing a super awesome move, its super powerful because they exposed a weak/blind spot and it takes you no more effort to do than any other attack.

3. No, nobody ever has full stamina in combat, the only bs type with that model wiould be poise, giving an even greater advantage to large weapon users who can't fast roll anyways, because they can just walk right through all your attacks and bs you, while you're kats aren't going to be able to return the favor, and now you can't counter bs them because they have the shield on your back.

Yeah, the whole having to have full stamina thing would be impossible. I said earlier it would be a BS dance to the death. Staring each other down until someone lag stabs you. It would suck, I find myself in those dances sometimes anyways until I take a shot not to, then I just get lag stabbed anyways.

Regardless like I said, I enjoy the BS, I'd even like to see it improved upon it being registered, why even today I was PVPing and I went to go BS someone and go figure it didn't register and I slapped them in the back for a whopping 300 something damage.

Moral of the story? DON'T DO BS DANCES!

Backstabs should not be completely negated. The reduced damage with a shield on the back is the best approach. 80 or 90 percent. Though, some of these characters are wielding ridiculously large weapons. So it should be any shield that prevents 100% physical damage can reduce or negate (depending on if it's a great shield or what have you) but a wooden shield should not be able to negate a BS. Also, if ANY of the shields can negate ALL of the damage, it should take a huge chunk out of their carry weight. Otherwise there will just be two handed spam tanks that can only take any real damage if you get a riposte, which doesn't always work if you've got lag.

hate to break it to you. but 2h spam tanks have the most carry weight because they don't care about their roll, so that's all there would ever be.

Also, the most bs damage any weapon does ar present is 1400, with the hornet ring. 20% of 1400 is 280. If we're talking tank with 2k hp, then you're still not doing any real damage and they can 2h spam tank away, because they only have to hitstun+bs you once to deal 1850 damage.

because a frustrating number of people actually think its a good idea (the shield thing) despite the repeated explinations by myself, vegeta, saint and a few others how and why this would wreck pvp without very serious changes to the core mecahnics.

I almost hope it happens, just so I can say "I told you so." Almost.

What if there were only a few shields that would decrease backstab damage when placed on the back, but the downside would be that they weigh a lot and, when equipped on the back, cause a reduction in the Max Carryweight (perhaps, 25% or 50%)? I think that would make people really think twice about using those shields on their backs, since, without proper preparation, two-handing your weapon would likely over-encumber you, making your stamina regen ridiculously slow and making you more susceptible to backstabs. Just a thought.

Reasons why forum goers are not on balance teams for games

1. This thread