CakeThiefPro wrote:Ok so I'm gonna leap in on the whole power struggle theory. We know the flames were fading as the Witch was trying to recreate the first flame. This presumably left Gwyn weak and once she failed he then had to fight off the chaos demons. It would seem Gwyn lost the war yet no help was sent. It would seem soon after Gwyn loses the war (perhaps immediately after?) he goes to link the flame before it is completely extinguished.
Okay.... .... ....
I'm gonna answer this point by point.
The first line needs to be fixed to "we know the flames would inevitably fade, and the witch was trying to recreate the first flame for personal gain". Quellana said that her mother was straight up misguided, and the rest is implied strongly.
About Gwyn becoming weaker... why would that happen? He has his own soul, intact, his lord soul is as split as it can be, and has not been yet linked to the flame.
Imo the recreation of the First Flame sounds more of a personal project to me, so that when the failure happened, the chaos demons would have come out of nowhere... or so it appeared in Anor Londo.
Yeah, Gwyn lost the war. I'm not sure about no help sent part... gotta be some help sent, he is Lord after all, but basically just a token gesture instead of the battalion that would have made a difference. Also, I think Gwyn went to the Kiln to die... his actions weren't to wage war (against what lol) but self-sacrifice.
We also know that the first born left the Sunlight Blade on his fathers tomb meaning he was a god during the war. As the god of war it seems likely he was either involved in the war or trying to send reinforcements to his father. I've never bought the idea that the first born of the most powerful God in Anor Londo and God of war himself was stripped of all his titles and power because he lost historical records. I've always got a strong Thor/Loki vibe from the first born and Gwyndolin. I think the firstborn wanted to aid his father in the kiln but the other gods were afraid.
The first part I disagree with. The Sunlight Blade does not automatically mean that the Firstborn was a god during Izalith invasion. He could have been kicked out before, and left the sunlight blade when he heard Gwyn "died" in the Kiln. The middle part I agree with, especially since Odin is another Zeus except older. The last part is pure speculah (about the firstbown wanting to help his father) but it does tie in to all the Solaire speculah, and what Undiscovery has been saying about Solaire being the "light-side" successor of Gwyn. (and I still laugh at the irony of Solaire helping kill Gwyn)
Undiscovery wrote:I'll admit your Ornstein argument is solid though, as captain it never looks like he did anything, hell Artorias was even sent to the Abyss before Ornstein. Guess he's in the Princess Guard?
CakeThiefPro wrote:Ornstein was sworn into the Princess Guard Covenant and therefore had to obey Gwynevere.
Where did you get this from? Look at the miracles you obtain from the covenant - they are support based... not something Ornstein would use, imo. And I never saw ANY silver knight use Soothing Sunlight.
CakeThiefPro wrote:The Gods fearing either the loss of their entire army in the first borns attempt to get into the kiln by using the lordvessel which would cost them what little power they have left decide to flee. The first born however feels a burning desire to help his father declares he is now incharge and that the gods must help his father. Gwyndolin jealous of the first born provides an excuse for them to remove his deific status so that they may flee. Gwyndolin is finally given some respect by the Gods and left in charge of Anor Londo. He may even believe he is honoring his fathers last wish by ensuring the kiln is protected and secured.
Gonna quote the Intro - "Gwyn, the lord of Sunlight, and his faithful Knights..." just for irony.
All the signs say that the God of War was stricken from the annals while Gwyn was still around, because nobody has the authority to do so other than him. Besides, it's basically the father disowning the son - now where have I heard that before?/sarcasm
Once the War God was cast down, he would not have the authority you assign him to actually command the Knights. Also, the Kiln was sealed by the Lordvessel, and nobody could get in unless they were actually the chosen undead.
LOL @ Gwyndolin given respect by the Gods - he is guarding an honorary tomb in an empty city in a realm lost to the undead which the Gods ran from like rats from a sinking ship. Only respect I can see anyone giving him is of the mocking kind - him and Velka are both bordering on insanity.
CakeThiefPro wrote:The first born is either driven slightly mad by this experience and is locked in an asylum until he can escape and finish his quest (with a little help) or remembers everything but accepts his fate and decides to focus on forging weapons however he may know of another way into the kiln.
Dude, probably they look like the blacksmith god, not Gwyn.
Undiscovery wrote:It says Gwyn had two groups of knights, the black knights who went with him to fight the demons and relight the flame and the silver knights who stayed behind to defend the goddess. It sounds more like Army Infantry to the National Guard. I don't think Gwyn would send more knights to a losing battle.
The Black Knights WERE silver knights - one group before Izalith, which warped the ones who did go with Gwyn. Then they became 2 distinct groups, and imo one bound to Gwyn by war and suffering, and the other who had no idea what transpired.
Also, imo, Gwyn would send more knights in a stalemate, since the Izalith war dragged on for quite a while, I'd assume it was that (that I get from Izalith not spreading into Blighttown... and the irony of defending one **** from another ****)
Undiscovery wrote:Although it could be his body in the tomb with Firstborn Ring, maybe he decided to perish there after leaving the SLB to pay respect.
The thought occured to me, yeah. I'm not really sure what to think on this one.