Reaperfan wrote:Does every instance of this kind of thing have to devolve into a sexism debate? Can't overly-ridiculous character design or art style just be that, overly-ridiculous?
Every instance doesn't devolve into a sexism debate. And overly-ridiculous style is still open to criticism, as everything else.
Reaperfan wrote:I don't see the male characters in this game as a power fantasy.
Irrelevant. Your personal stance on the color blue/green does not change the fact the majority of people see the color blue and associate it with health.
Reaperfan wrote:As a male, I see characters like Kratos and Dante as male power fantasies. They're grounded and/or developed enough to be just barely relatable so that you can just barely project yourself onto them. These Dragon's Crown guys are just...cartoons. You aren't supposed to be able to relate to them on a recognizable level. I don't look at them and think "I wish I were like that." I look at them and think "this is gonna be a gratuitous spectacle of mayhem that would make even Michael Bay wince." I wouldn't play this game for the fantasy, I'd play it for the spectacle.
Besides the fact that your personal stance does not represent any majority nor the intentions of the developers... Do you not see that the "extreme" of the male is their "power" features and the "extreme" of the female are their sexual features. Defending this on the basis that it's too extreme to be empowering or sexy completely misses the point that the very design is based on sexism. Extreme male = more muscle; extreme female = more sex.
Reaperfan wrote:I won't comment on the female characters specifically, as I'm not a woman and as such lack perspective on what would be an accurate assessment of their views on the issue. However, in the broad scheme of things I believe what's going on with this game's art direction can best be summed up by two tropes known as Up to Eleven and Refuge in Audacity.
No one woman can tell you about "our" perspective either. And if you look around many males found issue with this designs too.
Reaperfan wrote:For those not in the know and who aren't willing/able to read those links, tropes are simply recurring trends and elements in media. The trope "Up to Eleven" describes when a work decides to go to extreme lengths in one aspect, with the extremism itself being what makes that part of the work interesting rather than the aspect itself. "Refuge in Audacity" is a related trope to this that occurs when the particular aspect that happens to be extreme-ified is something that is likely offensive to someone in the target audience, but because the aspect is presented so blatantly and beyond the norm, it becomes acceptable in the mind of the audience because it no longer falls within the audience's expectations of how that subject is normally presented.
I disagree with your second assessment. There is no character doing anything audacious, and the art designer was not trying to make a statement and take it to the next level. He simply made extreme design that reveal basic sexism in extreme proportions.
Reaperfan wrote:Doesn't it just make more sense that, rather than trying to weasel money out of immature teen and preteen boys by nefariously designing their characters to exploit their weak psyches at the expense of an entire gender, they were instead just trying to make something generally flashy and awesome?
No, it doesn't. You are assuming that only "immature teen and preteen boys" have any desire for these overtly sexualized females. A quick google search will quickly dissuade such misconception, and further this isn't about their "marketing technique" but what is being criticized is the presentation as an art choice. Was this really the best they could come up with? Well then, how sad.
Reaperfan wrote:And since realism does nothing but tone things down in a viewer's mind by making it relatable to something mundane they'd come to the conclusion that the most effective way to pull this off is to make absolutely everything as unrealistic as possible?
And this does not change the fact that what they decided to accentuate were the power features of the male and the sex features of the female. Everything you present brings back the core issue which is: males seen as power, females seen as sex. It's bs and it's being called out and defending it makes you look sad.
Reaperfan wrote:Can't we just have fun with video games again?
I have fun with videogames all the time. I created the forum you're posting in. How about we start admitting that hey, maybe these old tired tropes and this deeply engrained sexism is out of date and should start moving out?