Any thoughts?
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Leet
Hawkins172
sparkly-twinkly-lizard
AnCapaillMor
Xero
reim0027
Dutchy
Serious_Much
Hart
Mental Gear
SadPanda
Acarnatia
TheMeInTeam
GrinTwist
Soul of Stray Demon
ninjashifty
20 posters
Well Honor Is Out the Door
ninjashifty- Addicted
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- Post n°1
Well Honor Is Out the Door
Been doing some invading and I've found, it's everyone for themselves. I've watched two guys fight and didn't interfere while invading. One guy kept using divine blessings, against another guys, so I decided to intervene. We both killed the invader only for the host to start using divine blessings. So I've decided, there are no fair fights. It's kill or be killed. No bowing anymore, just suck the sharp end of my sword or spear.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Soul of Stray Demon- Revived
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Location : Sitting next to Encore... "watching television"
- Post n°2
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Honor, you want honor? No matter what you want from dark souls pvp, you won't always get it. Sometimes people want a form of "etiquette" while others are more loose. People play it their way, and if you expect some sort of rules, the best way is to arrange a match.
And Honestly, I've done both, I've done gesture backstabs and complete "fair" fights with random strangers, they both have their own enjoyment off of it, and to expect everyone to have the same playstyle is just plain insane.
(Just to make this clear, that is not directed at you, but at everyone who complains about honor duels, or the lack of.)
And Honestly, I've done both, I've done gesture backstabs and complete "fair" fights with random strangers, they both have their own enjoyment off of it, and to expect everyone to have the same playstyle is just plain insane.
(Just to make this clear, that is not directed at you, but at everyone who complains about honor duels, or the lack of.)
GrinTwist- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°3
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
If you want an honorable duel I would suggest using the RSS not invading. Invading is the best way not to get an honorable duel, granted some hosts use the dried finger in order to get invaders but that isn't always the case. There is always the chance that you're invading someone that doesn't want to be invaded and they'll probably want you out of their game by any means necessary.ninjashifty wrote:Been doing some invading and I've found, it's everyone for themselves. I've watched two guys fight and didn't interfere while invading. One guy kept using divine blessings, against another guys, so I decided to intervene. We both killed the invader only for the host to start using divine blessings. So I've decided, there are no fair fights. It's kill or be killed. No bowing anymore, just suck the sharp end of my sword or spear.
Any thoughts?
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°4
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
My thoughts are that one should play how they want, but be wary that others might not play that way.
Acarnatia- Caffeinated
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- Post n°5
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
I'm with nome on this one. I play by my own ethics and generally aim to not expect others to play by them. I consider hacking/glitching inexcusable, though, as do I bowing, then backstabing the other person when they bow.
SadPanda- Caffeinated
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- Post n°6
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Welcome to 2013, where a quick Google search of "dark souls save editor" will bring up hundreds of download links.
Mental Gear- Casual
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- Post n°7
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Why does anyone think an 'invasion' calls for honorable behaviour? If someone invades my world I have to assume he will try to kill my char, so normally one wouldn't go thinking: Oh what a nice chap, come on let's be friends. No, he invades, so he will be considered the enemy. I wish for a good fight but I don't expect him to have the same standards as me. So the way I understand it the nature of an invasion is a hostile act in itself and therefore does not call for fair or honorable behaviour, altough it can if both players agree.
Remember, you invade the other players world unasked so expect aggressive, even unfair behaviour to stay alive(like estus, blessings aso) or to get rid of you sometimes. For example if you invade on top of Sen's fortress where invaders pop up very close to the boss fog expect to get knocked off the ledge by me using force spell, because probably you'll disturb me getting summoned.
You red evil invader )
Remember, you invade the other players world unasked so expect aggressive, even unfair behaviour to stay alive(like estus, blessings aso) or to get rid of you sometimes. For example if you invade on top of Sen's fortress where invaders pop up very close to the boss fog expect to get knocked off the ledge by me using force spell, because probably you'll disturb me getting summoned.
You red evil invader )
Last edited by Mental Gear on Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
SadPanda- Caffeinated
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- Post n°8
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Did you even read the OP?Mental Gear wrote:Why does anyone think an 'invasion' calls for honorable behaviour? If someone invades my world I have to assume he will try to kill my char, so normally one wouldn't go thinking: Oh what a nice chap, come on let's be friends. No, he invades, so he will be considered the enemy. I wish for a good fight but I don't expect him to have the same standards as me. So the way I understand it the nature of an invasion is a hostile act in itself and therefore does not call for fair or honorable behaviour, altough it can if both players agree.
Remember, you invade the other players world unasked so expect aggressive, even unfair behaviour to stay alive(like estus, blessings aso) or to get rid of you sometimes. For example if you invade on top of Sen's fortress where invaders pop up very close to the boss fog expect of get knocked off the ledge by me using force spell, because probably you'll disturb me getting summoned.
You red evil invader )
Mental Gear- Casual
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- Post n°9
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Why is there a need to ask?SadPanda wrote:Did you even read the OP?Mental Gear wrote:Why does anyone think an 'invasion' calls for honorable behaviour? If someone invades my world I have to assume he will try to kill my char, so normally one wouldn't go thinking: Oh what a nice chap, come on let's be friends. No, he invades, so he will be considered the enemy. I wish for a good fight but I don't expect him to have the same standards as me. So the way I understand it the nature of an invasion is a hostile act in itself and therefore does not call for fair or honorable behaviour, altough it can if both players agree.
Remember, you invade the other players world unasked so expect aggressive, even unfair behaviour to stay alive(like estus, blessings aso) or to get rid of you sometimes. For example if you invade on top of Sen's fortress where invaders pop up very close to the boss fog expect of get knocked off the ledge by me using force spell, because probably you'll disturb me getting summoned.
You red evil invader )
SadPanda- Caffeinated
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- Post n°10
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
So do you use divine blessings when you lose too?Mental Gear wrote:Why is there a need to ask?
Mental Gear- Casual
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- Post n°11
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Well if you have to question my conviction: Sportsmanship is what I like, so I fight and die by this rule, no heal, never bs, no humanity, no blessings, no mushrooms, no indictment, no whining messages after I lost, good karma.
I see you're not willing to understand my reasoning/viewpoint.
I talked about how I can understand how the invaded player sometimes will use 'unfair' methods(ganking, blessings, whatever) just to save his hide and how there are moments in the game when an invasion is kind of inconvenient and said invaded player wants to get rid of the invader in a fast and cheap way. Just because I tolerate or try to understand the reasoning behind such behaviour does not mean I pop divine blessings.
I see you're not willing to understand my reasoning/viewpoint.
I talked about how I can understand how the invaded player sometimes will use 'unfair' methods(ganking, blessings, whatever) just to save his hide and how there are moments in the game when an invasion is kind of inconvenient and said invaded player wants to get rid of the invader in a fast and cheap way. Just because I tolerate or try to understand the reasoning behind such behaviour does not mean I pop divine blessings.
Hart- Obsessed
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- Post n°12
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Chill guys, before this disagreement takes over OP's thread.
@ Mental Gear, while it might not have been your intent, your post could be misinterperated as an attack on the OP; implying that the lack of etiquette he is experiencing in PVP is solely his fault, due to being an invader. This is understandable, but IMO he was simply using his latest PVP experience (invading) as an example to highlight the trend of players resorting to cheap tactics, rather than complaining about this specific occasion.
And the tone of your post makes it appear as though you're suggesting the OP essentially shuts up and stops complaining since they're bringing it on themselves.
@ Panda, not sure why you took issue with Mental's post but dragging it out is why these discussions on PVP etiquette etc. are always locked. I've got no problem with anything you guys have said but others, and more importantly mods, will.
So just for the sake of OP's thread, could you drop it before someone gets offended/offensive and the topic becomes yet another succession of flaming.
I know, white knight moral*** alert, but nothings gonna come of it and in the end you'll both have wasted time on nothing of any real value (the arguing, not sharing your opinions on the topic).
I've uprepped your post Panda, because I personally see that downrep as unwarranted.
But please, limit your responses to the issue of the thread instead of antagonizing the situation.
EDIT: Wrote this before your latest post Mental, but I've decided to still post it since these threads get people hot under the collar.
@ Mental Gear, while it might not have been your intent, your post could be misinterperated as an attack on the OP; implying that the lack of etiquette he is experiencing in PVP is solely his fault, due to being an invader. This is understandable, but IMO he was simply using his latest PVP experience (invading) as an example to highlight the trend of players resorting to cheap tactics, rather than complaining about this specific occasion.
And the tone of your post makes it appear as though you're suggesting the OP essentially shuts up and stops complaining since they're bringing it on themselves.
@ Panda, not sure why you took issue with Mental's post but dragging it out is why these discussions on PVP etiquette etc. are always locked. I've got no problem with anything you guys have said but others, and more importantly mods, will.
So just for the sake of OP's thread, could you drop it before someone gets offended/offensive and the topic becomes yet another succession of flaming.
I know, white knight moral*** alert, but nothings gonna come of it and in the end you'll both have wasted time on nothing of any real value (the arguing, not sharing your opinions on the topic).
I've uprepped your post Panda, because I personally see that downrep as unwarranted.
But please, limit your responses to the issue of the thread instead of antagonizing the situation.
EDIT: Wrote this before your latest post Mental, but I've decided to still post it since these threads get people hot under the collar.
- on the topic of honor:
- On the rare occasions I PVP, I much prefer a good duel to one where its all healing and backstabs. But at the same time, if the fight is really good (timed attacks, interesting tactics and so forth) then the odd heal to keep the fight going is very enjoyable to me.
The way I see it, if you are someone who has a problem with people fighting outside of your ruleset, then you also have a responsibility to arrange what you'd consider an acceptable duel, and complaining about randoms not playing by your own rules strikes me as a futile. And of course theres always the Black Crystal if you absolutely have to.
Last edited by Hart on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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- Post n°13
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
In fairness honour has gone downhill, it's really noticeable since I first started pvping so many less people fight with any code.
When I first started pvping it didn't matter what method of invasion you did- the thing that made it a duel was bowing. Evidently now that's gone out of fashion and bowing doesn't mean jack anymore
Anyway this is a pvp discussion so I'm moving it to the appropriate section
When I first started pvping it didn't matter what method of invasion you did- the thing that made it a duel was bowing. Evidently now that's gone out of fashion and bowing doesn't mean jack anymore
Anyway this is a pvp discussion so I'm moving it to the appropriate section
Last edited by Serious_Much on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
SadPanda- Caffeinated
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- Post n°14
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
So you're saying 3 divine spamming forest gankers are "fair" because it's their world? No, that's bull****. I'm fine with Estus, TWoP, Hornet ring, whatever. But never, and I mean never are modded items fair or ok. Sure they could have gotten then legitimately, but come on, we all know how people get them. Hell, I have blessings just so I have enough time to dashboard. Don't play by modders' rules.Mental Gear wrote:Well if you have to question my conviction: Sportsmanship is what I like, so I fight and die by this rule, no heal, never bs, no humanity, no blessings, no mushrooms, no indictment, no whining messages after I lost, good karma.
I see you're not willing to understand my reasoning/viewpoint.
I talked about how I can understand how the invaded player sometimes will use 'unfair' methods(ganking, blessings, whatever) just to save his hide and how there are moments in the game when an invasion is kind of inconvenient and said invaded player wants to get rid of the invader in a fast and cheap way. Just because I tolerate or try to understand the reasoning behind such behaviour does not mean I pop divine blessings.
Dutchy- Obsessed
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- Post n°15
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
An Argument ensues out of a misunderstood idea, and all parties firmly agreeing or disagreeing with the idea.
reim0027- Moderator
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- Post n°16
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
"Honor" is situational.
Consider these situations:
Situation A: someone invades your world while you are questing. You are fighting for your life. You start to spam estus, run away, look for summons, hide around corners, anything you can do to stay alive. You manage to kill your invader. Fair game IMO. No lack of honor there.
Situation B: someone invades your world while you are camping. You have a phantom there, at the spawn point and gank right away. Is the invader supposed to bow, allow you to prepare to fight, not heal, etc?
Situation C: You invade the forest as a Catbro. The host is fighting another Catbro. What you just missed (before you spawned) is your fellow Blue just killed off 2 of that host's ganking buddies, and the host is running to summon more. Is it dishonorable to jump in and help your your blue Bud?
Situation D: Similar to C. This time, what you don't see is the other phantom, wearing a fog ring just waiting for your fellow catbro to get in casting range.
Obviously, things are quite different if you are RSS or invading into a known PvP hotspot. Personally, if I am there and one of the other players starts spamming DBs, Estus, or Humanity, I jump in and attack them (host or red). I actually come there to fight, not to wait 30 minutes until they run out of humanity. Am I being dishonorable?
Last thing - when I'm PvPing in known hotspots, most of my duels are legit (IMO). Bow, buff, grass, fight, minimal to no heals, winner bows.
Consider these situations:
Situation A: someone invades your world while you are questing. You are fighting for your life. You start to spam estus, run away, look for summons, hide around corners, anything you can do to stay alive. You manage to kill your invader. Fair game IMO. No lack of honor there.
Situation B: someone invades your world while you are camping. You have a phantom there, at the spawn point and gank right away. Is the invader supposed to bow, allow you to prepare to fight, not heal, etc?
Situation C: You invade the forest as a Catbro. The host is fighting another Catbro. What you just missed (before you spawned) is your fellow Blue just killed off 2 of that host's ganking buddies, and the host is running to summon more. Is it dishonorable to jump in and help your your blue Bud?
Situation D: Similar to C. This time, what you don't see is the other phantom, wearing a fog ring just waiting for your fellow catbro to get in casting range.
Obviously, things are quite different if you are RSS or invading into a known PvP hotspot. Personally, if I am there and one of the other players starts spamming DBs, Estus, or Humanity, I jump in and attack them (host or red). I actually come there to fight, not to wait 30 minutes until they run out of humanity. Am I being dishonorable?
Last thing - when I'm PvPing in known hotspots, most of my duels are legit (IMO). Bow, buff, grass, fight, minimal to no heals, winner bows.
Xero- Addicted
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- Post n°17
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Why would it be ok to chug if you get invaded while questing? I am guessing most of you guys invade around level 100 and most people that you invade are actually pvpers. So why would they chug? If they die they just go back to the bonfire. You could say they are afraid of losing their souls but how likely is it for a level 100 pvp build to actually die in pve?
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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- Post n°18
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
I consider questing a different ball game- you don't want to pvp hence you don't need to bind yourself by the rules you usually have.
I also consider 3v1s by questers to not be ganking because they don't wish to have pvp and didn't intend to farm invaders
I also consider 3v1s by questers to not be ganking because they don't wish to have pvp and didn't intend to farm invaders
Xero- Addicted
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- Post n°19
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
But what if its just the host? You can mostly tell if its someones new by their equipment. If they are using Dingy robe and havels leggings while flipping around and they start chugging what do you do?
reim0027- Moderator
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- Post n°20
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
True questers have no rules, IMO. They can fight, or run, or hide, any way they want. True questers are people who are there for PvE. When I'm making a build, I don't want to get invaded. I'll summon people or speedrun to the boss. It is up to the invader to kill me. I'm not going to give him any help.
AnCapaillMor- Insomniac
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- Post n°21
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
Definately, i think the only rule they should have is do whatever it takes to get to the boss. I see a lot of so called ganking vids and clearly it's questers going for the boss, i'll try and fight fairly myself but i can understand most not doing it. Forest, start of ollacille town and stat of kiln would be ganker central, anywhere else they're questing the vast majority of the time.
It boils down to this people play the game for different reasons, some for pve, some for honour pvp, some to troll, some to help, you can't expect everyone to drop everything and play the way you want to play.
It boils down to this people play the game for different reasons, some for pve, some for honour pvp, some to troll, some to help, you can't expect everyone to drop everything and play the way you want to play.
sparkly-twinkly-lizard- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°22
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
sadly rss aren't a guarantee of honorable fights either, they're prime targets for gankers now.
Hawkins172- Casual
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- Post n°23
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
i don't see why anyone would expect honour in a game. suit yourself if you bow or not. i do bow most of the times(if i get the chance) but thats for my own sense of honour not because i expect anyone else to have a sense of honour.
Leet- Insomniac
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- Post n°24
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
If you don't expect honor out of anyone else, why would you bow? I would just BS you as your bowing. But i have play with "honor" so i bow back. If i go somewhere like the forest where i know no one cares about that i won't bow once, because i'll just regret it.Hawkins172 wrote:i don't see why anyone would expect honour in a game. suit yourself if you bow or not. i do bow most of the times(if i get the chance) but thats for my own sense of honour not because i expect anyone else to have a sense of honour.
Soul of Stray Demon- Revived
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- Post n°25
Re: Well Honor Is Out the Door
I disagree, I've had many times in the forest where not only will they bow, but a catbro may actually not fight till I finish the current one.
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