Attack Rating vs Real Damage: Analysis of Defense

And there's a problem with your idea, BLA1NE. A log of AR is always going to be a bigger # the greater the AR, meaning that it's either a denominator below a variable multiplied by the defense, I don't think Log is implemented

It's supposed to be a bigger number the bigger the AR. It just can't go above 1.

BLA1NE wrote:Damage blocked was always < Defense Rating. So, however log works, "logAR" needs to end up being a number <1.

Which isn't in the right direction because the higher the AR, the higher the LogAR.

log can work with a constant/variable reducing the value. Im trying a few now.

joe if you look at it a higher AR produces a higher damg blocked so log AR does work.

DoughGuy wrote:log can work with a constant/variable reducing the value. Im trying a few now.

That's what I was thinking. I think it may be in the denominator below a constant multiplied by the defense in order to "reduce" the defense. This reduction would then rely on the AR.

log(275)x138x27% = 91
log(658)x138x0.335 = 130

I guess I missed something, because you guys are talking about blocked. I thought you were talking about damage delt.

And this is NOT about damage blocked. You're assuming that there's a direct correlation between AR and damage blocked, when, really, the formula takes the AR, the Damage dealt, and creates a #, that being damage dealt. It doesn't create a # that then takes away from the original AR. You're making it too hard on yourselves if you're thinking about damage blocked.

DoughGuy wrote:log(275)x138x27% = 91
log(658)x138x0.335 = 130

Where'd you get 27% and the 0.335?

log(275)x418x21.3% = 217
log(658)x418x23.3% = 275

@Joe thats the number you have to multilpy it by to make it work. I simply found it. The trick is finding what makes those numbers.
EDIT: BGut remember Im not using an xAR- blocked so those values could be a constant if ew find x.

Where are you getting these %'s?! Am I missing something?

DoughGuy wrote:@Joe thats the number you have to multilpy it by to make it work. I simply found it. The trick is finding what makes those numbers.

So you're using guess and check? We need to use a system of equations in order to find what these variables are. To do so, we need to figure out a base formula and how many variables there are.

Right now, you're just taking random formulas, then adding the # you need, which won't be the same unless you stumble upon it.

Im making them up joe! just to make the equation work. To see if three was any value that fit all of them Check my edit.

Skyyyyyyyyyyyyype. This will be so much easier to talk. BLA1NE, PM me if you want to join in the convo on Skype. Please. That would be SO much easier.

No, I'm off to bed! But I think I've given you enough to build off of, Dough's on the right track. I think what Dough's getting at is that the formula is probably xAR - (logxAR)Def. If you plug some numbers in there, see if x works?

Either way, glhf! I'll check back tomorrow.

We got close. Either that, or we eliminated one formula. We'll see. I'm about to go to bed and he's about to go to work. We'll get it. But not today, sadly.

I think doughguy and I should get "Mathematician" as our title if we get this. Or something something something

I'm pumped I want to get this so bad.

Ok, I had a weird one recently. Was cooping on my sl 139 int build. 50 int, dusk crown, bellowing dragon ring, and enchanted balder side sword +5. We get invaded and the invader is also wearing a dusk crown. When I landed a backstab on him with the enchanted BSS, it did 1190 damage - 100s more than I've ever had on anybody with a BSS w/o a hornet ring, including buffs. The guy was wearing armor and was presumably similar level as this didn't kill him, so his defenses should have been pretty good. Was this just because he was wearing the dusk crown so he took more magic damage (including weapon magic damage)? It was also more than I was doing with CSS and white dragon breath.

Yeah, Dusk Crown seems a likely theory to me. It makes a significant difference in how much damage you take from magic, melee included. I remember pumping my magic defense in the Burg once because I was tired of SLB Darkmoons, and it drastically reduced the amount of damage I took from them. So the Dusk Crown was just doing the opposite.

Just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone is still working on this. Defense still seems a very obscure topic to me, even on the wiki. It is the proverbial final frontier of dark souls wikidom is it not?

Nope thats the pendant
No one is working on it atm, although I have a theory that I coul dtest out.

Gah, I forgot about the stupid pendant LOL good point. What is your theory

Well we know defence has diminishing returns. And w eknow logs give smaller values the larger numbers get. So something like the log(AR) of defence will give you theamount of damage blocked.
SO I just got my calculator to test this. And nope, it doesnt work. Ok moving on.

I have a question related to the damage modification of 2 handing.
I know there probably a solid number on this but maybe you guys will have ideas anyway.

If at +0 a weapon has 95% 2h modification and this diminishes as the weapon is upgraded does that mean special/demon/dragon weapons that only level 5 times would have more 2h damage modification than a +15 weapon? Or is the damage modification different from these types of weapons?

It was theorized that 2 handing just adds damage equivalent to it's original base damage, but that doesn't seem right in practice.

It's also possible that I'm mathematically stupid and I've read this data wrong.

2 handing a weapon increases your effective str by 1.5. So if you have 20 str and 2 hand a weapon it will act as if you have 30 str. It then depends on the weapons scaling what that does.