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    The Search for Lore

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    Post by Shkar on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:54 am

    Yukon wrote:He has the crecent axe in Catacombs before meeting Reah and the crew, RIP patches... you were too good for this world.
    Huh, I guess my observation was for naught. Now I really want to know where he got it, but he probably just stripped it off some failed adventurer.
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    Post by Shkar on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:23 am

    Gr, again with the double post! I hope the moderators are feeling generous...

    I've noticed that there is an option to save practically every NPC you encounter, through one method or another. It's pretty much a given that we've discovered everything by this point. However, maybe some kind of inference between the different situations could help decipher the lore.

    Solaire is saved through the normal method.
    Siegmeyer could theoretically be saved by telling his daughter you haven't seen him.
    Laurentius can be kept from looking for the Chaos Pyromancies.
    Logan and Griggs can be saved by not buying all of their stuff.
    Not talking to the Crestfallen Knight keeps him from going hollow.
    Even Rhea, who seems to be accident prone, can be saved without killing Petrus by killing Nito last (I believe, he kills her after 2 boss kills, right?)


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    Post by Yukon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:37 am

    I think the mods here are pretty generous with double posting, I havent seen anyone get in trouble for it yet atleast.

    I think Petrus kills her after you have just visited 2-4 areas, not as soon as you kill two bosses, because she was dead the first time I played the game, and I was farming in blight town and had not killed anyone but nito since her freedom.

    I could be wrong. But, theoretically she could be saved the way you stated. I am a bit confused where you are going with your idea though?


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    Post by Yukon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:41 am

    Funny thing, You know who DOES have a crecent axe?

    One of reah's followers, the one who mumbles. I just ran by him in the shrine and he had it pulled out and everything.... given that patches already had one before they even arrived, we can't really assume much. I literally went down and killed him before even talking to Petrus and talked to him on my way to the gargoyles and now his crew showed up. Doesn't say a whole bunch, but just a little bit of info for you.

    /testing the will of the moderators by double posting after a double post.
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    Post by Shkar on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:06 am

    Yukon wrote:Funny thing, You know who DOES have a crecent axe?

    One of reah's followers, the one who mumbles. I just ran by him in the shrine and he had it pulled out and everything.... given that patches already had one before they even arrived, we can't really assume much. I literally went down and killed him before even talking to Petrus and talked to him on my way to the gargoyles and now his crew showed up. Doesn't say a whole bunch, but just a little bit of info for you.

    /testing the will of the moderators by double posting after a double post.

    Looking back at the description of Crescent Axe, it does seem to be implying that there is more then one. The association with Sanctus and Grant, being legendary and apparently unique, must have made me group the axe with them as being unique.

    Yukon wrote:I think the mods here are pretty generous with double
    posting, I havent seen anyone get in trouble for it yet atleast.

    I
    think Petrus kills her after you have just visited 2-4 areas, not as
    soon as you kill two bosses, because she was dead the first time I
    played the game, and I was farming in blight town and had not killed
    anyone but nito since her freedom.

    I could be wrong. But,
    theoretically she could be saved the way you stated. I am a bit confused
    where you are going with your idea though?

    I don't really know how to describe it, I just have a weird hunch that
    there's something connecting the fact that you can save so many people.
    It may just be the fact that the game lacks a true community though, it
    may be causing my mind to think in those terms.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:16 am

    Petrus kills reah if you kill two bosses without talking to her.


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    Post by steal_yer_bike on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:16 am

    Petrus' armor is black/dark grey and he is deceptive. He carries bronze coins, which you later find the gold and silver version on mimics in anor londo. The symbol of avarice is gluttonous in every way. You get more souls, more items, and it also eats away at your health. Money is symbolic of gluttony and greed. Patches is greedy, and out for himself.

    Petrus mentions that if all of the bonfires are kindled then one is bestowed amazing powers. He needs the rite of kindling, but he is not a cleric on pilgrimage.

    You find a set of maidens armor in gwyndolin's chambers, and also in duke's archives.

    Rhea doesnt show up if you don't pick up the first firekeeper soul, or kill the capra demon. Why?


    back on to mimics.. why do they fall asleep when you throw talisman at them? I believe there is some deeper correlation between estus use and firekeepers no one has recognized.

    Is kindling and estus reinforcement a disservice to the firekeepers?


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    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:57 pm

    I've never found the maiden set in Gwyndolin's chamber...that chest is always empty.


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    Post by TheTruth on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:43 pm

    steal_yer_bike wrote:

    You find a set of maidens armor in gwyndolin's chambers, and also in duke's archives.

    Rhea doesnt show up if you don't pick up the first firekeeper soul, or kill the capra demon. Why?

    the chest in Gwyndolins Chamber has been empty for me everytime ive checked it, WyrmHero even did a test with the chest being Darkmoon +3 and was expeled from his covenent (thanks again for Checking that WyrmHero) and the chest was still empty.

    Reah will show up if u dont pick up the Firekeepers soul, but have killed the Capra Demon. at least thats how it was for me, didnt grab the Firekeepers soul till she was in the Church Praying. oh, and how do you Throw a Talisman?!? i have a Faith build and that would increase my fun levels!


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    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:45 pm

    I think if you get it from the dukes before you get it from Gwyndolins chamber it disappers frim Gwyndolins.


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    Post by TheTruth on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:51 pm

    with my first toon i fought Gwnydolin before i had the lord vessel and it was still empty sad , that chest bothers me.


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    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:39 pm

    One time I fought Gwyndolin without even acquiring the Lordvessel. The chest was empty.


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    Post by ublug on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:21 am

    Shkar wrote:After checking on some other characters, it looks like patches never uses the crescent axe. On the other side though, killing him in the catacombs before he meets rhea and co. may rove interesting if he doesn't drop the crescent axe.
    He never uses it, you don't change the story by killing him either. I also read the description as a pun, as when you tell Patches you are a indeed a Cleric, he'll attack you and eventually drop it when he dies. "The Crescent Axe is bequeathed to cleric warriors who have proven their faith."

    steal_yer_bike wrote:You find a set of maidens armor in gwyndolin's chambers
    This is a myth to my knowledge. I'll need solid evidence to be convinced otherwise.

    steal_yer_bike wrote:I believe there is some deeper correlation between estus use and firekeepers no one has recognized.
    Is kindling and estus reinforcement a disservice to the firekeepers?
    The Estus Flasks are linked to the Fire Keepers. The Dark Tales also make reference:
    An emerald flask, from the Keeper's soul
    She lives to protect the flame,
    And dies to protect it further


    My take on this is that you are the flame (hope), and she protects you both alive and dead, either by replenishing or strengthening your (her) flask.
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    Post by sunbro on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:38 am

    TheTruth wrote:
    steal_yer_bike wrote:

    You find a set of maidens armor in gwyndolin's chambers, and also in duke's archives.

    Rhea doesnt show up if you don't pick up the first firekeeper soul, or kill the capra demon. Why?

    the chest in Gwyndolins Chamber has been empty for me everytime ive checked it, WyrmHero even did a test with the chest being Darkmoon +3 and was expeled from his covenent (thanks again for Checking that WyrmHero) and the chest was still empty.

    Reah will show up if u dont pick up the Firekeepers soul, but have killed the Capra Demon. at least thats how it was for me, didnt grab the Firekeepers soul till she was in the Church Praying. oh, and how do you Throw a Talisman?!? i have a Faith build and that would increase my fun levels!

    Just equip them in one of you're quik slots
    They can be bought at the undead merchant(the male)


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    Post by Shkar on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:15 pm

    I probably just started grabbing for stuff, but here goes my theory.

    The Garden is believed too be the land of Oolacile, but even if it isn't, there is human construction there. Nobody can claim that is false. The question is, where is all of the other construction? Was the entire garden just the land of the giant manor you get the divine ember in?

    This is where a rather...interesting bit of evidence comes into play. Across from the "floodgates" of New Londo (Probably used as normal gates at one point), on the other side of the bridge in the Valley of Drakes, lies the elevator to the garden.

    An elevator just opposite of the elevator that takes you to the seal in New Londo. The outside of which at the bottom can be seen holes in the pillars, like those in the other side of the valley where the gates latch...

    So, there was a gate there at one point. The most obvious reason for there too be gates there is that there was once a city there, just like New Londo. Now, let's take a look at where the gates would lead if all the rubble wasn't there. Oh my, right under the lake with the hydra? Was this city flooded for some reason, just like New Londo was?




    As for what the city is, here's my theory. When the humans started fighting the dragons, they had to have at least a few cities. It is the only way they would have been able to gather a large enough army to fight them. Now, let's look at the cities in game: Anor Londo (new, above ground), New Londo (old?, below ground), and Izalith (old, below ground). Huh, two of the three are underground? Well, the dragons must have been the terrors of the open world back then. Humanity must have lived underground for safety, at which point they discovered the flame.

    So, if the OLD cities were underground, then New Londo can't be the new ANOR Londo. So, is it not possible that when the city under the garden (henceforth known as simply "Londo") had a population high enough that people couldn't expand any more, they went across the valley, and started a new city. A "New" Londo, if you will. And then, when at long last they had beat the dragons, the humans walked out of their caves and settled on the surface, settling an above ground city, which they called Anor (sunny) Londo.


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    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:18 pm

    Shkar, you might want to check out the "There's more to Them" and "Darkroot Woods" threads, you'll find many of use agree with you on a lot of your points actually and have discussed them pretty greatly. Nice findings.
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    Post by Shkar on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:36 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Shkar, you might want to check out the "There's more to Them" and "Darkroot Woods" threads, you'll find many of use agree with you on a lot of your points actually and have discussed them pretty greatly. Nice findings.

    I'd read most of them. I hadn't seen some of the info I had posted here though. Do you think I should copy and paste this in those threads?
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    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:37 pm

    Sure, we could always talk about them again in there, you never know what revisiting an idea might bring up.
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    Post by User on Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:53 am

    This topic, the ancient rite, I have been speculated and searching both physically and mentally again and again, looking for the answer towards this 'ancient rite', a ritual used by those who have past long ago. Such ancient rites have been seen constantly in our view with both the rite of kindling and the large flame ember. However, as I have searched over and over, I have found many items linked towards this rite, and in better terms are linked to one individual in turn: The first Firekeeper of the flame of disparity; the goddess of sin, Velka.

    31. Ancient Rites and Velka

    In the case of Lordran, we know that the rite of kindling is an important aspect towards the way of white, meant to give 'extraordinary power' as Petrus somewhat describes. The Rite of Kindling, as well as the large flame ember (which states that it is part of the ancient rite ritual in the description as well), also points towards Nito as well, as he was known to have once the rite of kindling, as well as Vamos knowing of where the large flame ember was (New Londo), which also ties towards the Darkwraiths and the chaos covenant, although more so to the Darkwraiths. We have speculated over and over about these two things, what they mean, what they represent. However... their was a few things that I have missed in my play.

    One, is the Server. In the description of this curved sword, it says that it was used for an ancient rite, and that it has frightful occult energy. Interesting enough, the sword's description changes later when certain upgrades are made towards the sword, in which case would be that of the chaos and the flame upgrades. The contexts of the sword, as well as the location, is interesting by itself. For one, it is a unique sword, being found only once in every playthroughs, unless given by an outsider player. The sword, being a curved sword, is a unique type by itself. The only greatswords found within Lordran other than the server are both the eastern greatsword, murak, as well as the gravelord greatsword. Interesting enough, both curved greatswords are owned by Nito and his followers, as well as the rite of kindling, being part of the ancient rite, also being held by Nito as well. The sword is made to leech life with every hit that it gives, and its location is also special, as it is guarded by giant leeches, which seemingly is proper due to the fact that leeches are meant to suck life out of things in order to sustain as well. Where the server lays, their are three leeches who surround such a sword, in which might speculate that the leeches absorbed the power of the energy within the sword, in which may be the cause of them being in such a large state (maybe the mosquitoes as well, although hard to say if that is so, as such mosquitoes can exist in reality in tropical forests... or other bugs at least).

    The most interesting aspect of the sword, however, is the design of it. Many do not know, but their is a picture of a special creature that many interact with in Lordran, although only known to show in special occasions. The creature drawn on the sword is of dark origin as well, as the sword is known to have occult properties towards it. On the non-sharpened side of the great curved sword, their is a creature with a long neck, in which extends from hilt to the hook of the blade. With it, the head emerges from the long neck, and with it shows a snake of sorts, that shows somewhat of a mustache or ear content beside it, unblinking eyes, and an odd grin. The Glutton Dragon, the Primordial Serpent, is the picture of this very sword. Such a dragon would be an odd place to be in such influence of an ancient rite, as the serpent is the representation of consummation, as shown both by Frampt (titanite and item consummation and breakage) and Kaathe (humanity to be absorbed to the dark hand/dark weapons). Such influence between the ancient rite, the server, and the glutton dragons gives such wonder as to what it would aim towards. How did this sword come to such a location? Hard to say, however as blighttown leads towards the demon ruins (which can allow Kirk to reach to the chaos servants with the large flame ember, if he really did bring it with him), as well as it being beside the great hollow, it can either be brought from Kirk who lost it (unlikely), or is that of a possible woman who dropped it... however speculation still continues as of why it is their now, instead of with the large flame ember or with the rite of kindling. Inconvenient place.

    I have speculated before that the ancient rite, being that it is tied to certain aspects towards the flame of disparity, might be the tools used in order for those to become of such quality as Velka, the flame of disparity, or perhaps even both. But to what qualities does the ancient rite give? Hard to say. However with many experiments, with a good amount of playthroughs to test it, I still did not find anything... so I looked further.

    I searched in the wiki, i searched in the forum, the game, youtube, everywhere.... I found many things in the game and looked over again and again, and yet I still did not find anything that might have tied towards the ancient rite... Then I found some things of interest that do tie towards the ancient rite, Velka, and the flame of disparity. I found more items that have descriptions that are tied towards this rite, as well as being connected for the content of such items use.

    The first, is the the rings of sacrifice. Both of them. They are both tied towards this rite, with the usage of humanity, be the aspect used in the connection of both dark and fire, which is the very aspect of the flame of disparity, as dark is part of the flame of disparity. As well, these two rings function the same way, however one ring is resilient towards curses. Curses, in which we the chosen undead have seen constantly, are those of two influences within lordran. one are the dragons, in which we see as the basilisk and Seath. The other is the ghosts of New Londo, as well as artorias and the four kings. Such beings are tied towards Velka as well, and no other being either use nor are infected by such curses. Both these beings are tied towards Velka as well, being that Ne wLondo has the influence of both the statues of her (and a child) that lead towards the abyss, the holder of not only the four kings, but also a dark serpent, a glutton dragon: Kaathe. Seath having some ideals that are speculated to be tied towards Velka in many aspects, mostly due to the lifehunter, the influence of power, and the aspect of him betraying Gwyn in his absence, just as New Londo did; both being influenced by Velka. The basilisk and Seath have other reasons of tying to the rings... but that is for later.

    The rings can both be worn at the same time, both the brown and the magenta. In the description, it is created in a sacrificial rite of the goddess of sin. Now whether or not is used for the ancient rite is spectacle and possibly not so, as it only says that it was created in a sacrificial rite. However, the ties towards humanity, as well as these rings being known to be rare and uncommon, with the only exception being the merchant that sells 10 normal rings of sacrifice (you can find two rings of sacrifice, three rare rings of sacrifice, in the wild), it can be said that these rings are indeed rare and hard to find. As the pardoner, the merchant who sells these normal rings of sacrifice, is a priest and follower of the Goddess of Sin, that it may be the the treasures that he brought with him from the goddess to Lordran, or is the treasures he has found within lordran, to be used by those who can afford it. It may be that these rings are created in a similar fashion as that of the bite rings and the purging stones, however it is hard to say, as it shows no dread of any dark influence of its creation, unlike the purging stones and the bite rings. Velka, as well as the bite rings and the purging stones, can be said to be tied towards Carim. It is also noted that the cursebite ring can be found in New Londo, where many Carim objects are also found as well, including the parrying dagger, the red sage, and other factors. The clams, the ones that are found by the dragon Seath as well as ash lake, also have purging stones as well, which shows the question as of how these things are made. The last note needed to make, is that the ring of sacrifice is tied to the flame of disparity, as it uses the breakage of the ring in order to bring a person back to life as human at a bonfire. The indication of wearing it also shows a humanity symbol under the user's top bar on the top left corner, which has a small humanity symbol (similar to how wearing special rings or other sorts bring sup a small symbol to resemble its influence, such as a green shield with a yellow arrow, or other such symbols towards the aspect of the item equipped and used).

    The next is the Vow of Silence. A secret rite also tied towards Velka, with the other being the rings of sacrifice, both the rare and the more so common type. The vow of silence is not to preserve the beings souls nor humanity after death, but more so mute the use of any magic whatsoever. Interesting, as Velka, being known as a black haired witch, would have negative impact towards such a miracle. It would seem odd to have it equipped of all cases, being that it removes the aspects of Sorcery, Pyromancy, and Miracles. However, a few exceptions leave it to not hinder the use of magic. Such items include the dragons weapons and their powers, the dragon body and its powers it holds, and some items such as the stone great sword and the trident. These weapons are tied towards magic, however are not hindered by this miracle. However, one is not a weapon, in which is the dragon body itself. This dragon body uses the power of flame and magic, as we have discovered from before posts as of their origin of creation. Even thou they are influenced by magic, these dragonoids are not affected by this miracle. it may be due to the fact that these special abilities that come from the dragon body use endurance, which would say that the organs or the physical self has been altered to a state of becoming more so physical than magical at all. Now what is this secret rite any how? What is it meant for, other than muting the use of general and common magic? It is said that it is a secret rite, but for what is unknown. Perhaps it is part of a secret rite, in which seems to tie towards the aspect of both flame and magic. So why is Pyromancy removed from play after the use of the miracle? Perhaps it is the lack of magic, or perhaps a lack of something else, being that it comes from the origin of the chaos witches, not Velka or the dragons themselves. Who knows. The aspect of removing the use of magic, however, seems to follow the ideals of the blacksmith deity as well as the god of war, believing in the aspect of only trust in the arm. As the dragon seems to follow these trends, even thou they are that of both magic and fire, it seems to be able to surpass such use of the miracle as well.

    The next, is the large divine ember. Similar to that of the large flame ember, it is used for rites as well. However instead of stating ancient rites, it states church rites instead. The location of the large divine ember is interesting on itself, being found surrounded by followers of Nito, holder of the rite of kindling (or was) and that these beasts of the occult and flame are weak towards such divine weaponry, and the ideas of the divine ember being near them would seemingly be... unstable. The church rite has no information to it, however divine qualities can be found in two aspects of Lordran: The gods of the sun, and the way of white. The way of white, followers of Lloyd and the aspects of the flame of disparity, seem to favour the location of the catacombs and the tomb of giants; home of the Gravelord himself, the darkest pits of Lordran. I have posted before about such influence that rhea, the way of whit, and Nito have towards the flame of disparity, and that the way of white seek it for something of the flame. I have speculated that the way of white was part of the unification of the bondage of Velka and Gwyn during or before the flame of disparity, in which case may be that the way of white is a party of influence that had once held Velka as part of their family... perhaps. The aspect of Rhea being different than most is similar to that of the witches found within Lordran, being that of Velka, Beatric, and the Daughters of Chaos. perhaps, as the ancient rite is what the way of white seeks, that it is indeed part of such unification and the flame of disparity. Now, as the divine ember is that used for church rites, it may be that this ember is of use similar to that of the large flame ember as well.

    The last one, and possibly the most unexpected and troubling out of them all, is the one I thought that would against the idea of the first flame: The Dragon. Now this made me go for a long search for a while. But... I have found some interesting notes about such dragon body, found and given by the stone dragon (who is a Firekeeper of an old bonfire, a bonfire of the war of the dragons. Hinted by the lumber used to kindle it instead of bone). Now the structure and the content of the body itself is interesting. The fur it holds is similar to that of Nito and the Darkwraiths who follow the ideals of Kaathe, a serpent of the dark and Velka. Interesting, as the ideals of the darkwraiths and Nito are of similar aspects towards that of the dragons. The darkwraiths are meant to grow themselves in power, as much as a dragonoid does as well. The Gravelord uses the aspect of an eye, a dragon eye. Not the same eye as a dragon, but instead that of a lesser dragon, a basilisk, which is tied towards Velka and Seath in many aspects, as stated before. All three have the ideals of the black hair, symbolizing Velka as well. The structure of the dragon also symbolizes a creature that use to hunt them down as well: The Silver Knight. The legs, the chest, and the arms have the same exoskeleton as that of a black and a silver knight, showing particular fondness towards the dragonoids and even the dragons themselves. At least the everlasting dragons. These aspects of the dragon body and head are interesting at best. Now whether or not this dragon body and head are used for the ancient rite is unknown. However such a dragon body can not be dodged for the ties it has towards many of the beings of Lordran, of both the dark and sunlight. As the stone dragon seems to be a Firekeeper of the first flame, she seems to show the ideals of how dragons are not completely separate from the first flame, even thou it was first lit to remove the aspect of the everlasting dragons. But why? Is it for the greater good of humanity, to allow the aspect of man to become not the aspect of a shadow under such beasts of strength and awe? Or is it due to the fact that perhaps another being seeking power, and she brought others with her towards that goal? Speculation still continues.

    Now as for what the rite is used for, is right now just speculation. however, it still stands for the aspects of bondage, the first flame, a trueborn (Rhea, or at least a witch in blood), and Velka in general. The search continues, but at least you know what I have been doing for the past few weeks for lore. The search continues, the lore close, have faith and patience.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:40 am

    Good to see you and your lore finding powers back acidic.


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    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:40 pm

    Wow I didn't knew the Server has an image of a Primordial Serpent. I was planning to use that sword today. Very good find Acid. I know Velka has something to do with the Dragons, I think she was very obsessed with them (Priscilla). Also the Painted World has some connections to the Gravelords, Darkwraiths, the Dragons and Velka.

    One is the Bonewheels and the Dried Finger (which yesterday I noticed the Eye of Death acts as a Dried Finger, resetting the connection counter for invasions). The other is the Red Soapstone found at the top of stairs, which was used by noble Darkwraiths. Souvenirs of Reprisal dropped from the Crows, Pardoner gear, Dark Ember, Vow of Silence are things related to Velka. The Undead Dragon and Priscilla are related to the Dragons (could it be that the Undead Dragon was once a cursed Undead (Darksign) turned Hollow because of lack of humanity???).


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    Post by Tolvo on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:43 pm

    Hey, just thought I would bring this up. Artorias was a Dark Wraith who hunted Dark Wraith according to his story, supposedly. As well, that RSS is for Dark Wraiths who take the Honourable path, could it be possible he had like a sect of Dark Wraith followers who were Knights? Kind of goes with the Forest being a proving ground idea, as you do need his covenant to become a Dark Wraith and the swords of countless knights, as well as the knights who guard the forest. Man, I've been overloading on Lore recently. 😕
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    Post by User on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:18 pm

    32. Citizens of Sorcery

    In the many aspects of Lordran, we see that many of the civilizations follow the ideals of the faith. Catarina, Carim, Astroa, and Thorolund are such aspects of the faith. However, their is also a good amount of civilizations that are of the intelligence. Instead of the aspect of others, they see the aspect of themselves. Carim shows such integrity with the Sealers and the Pardoner, but they are more so a hybrid of both faith and intelligence. Those who follow the ideals of intellect are of fewer quantity than that of the faith, and most have been obliterated or obscured form any to see.

    There are three such civilizations known to us that follow such ideals. One, the dragon school of Vinheim, who take the aspect of using the ever known sorcery spells that we see that is offensive (soul arrows, spears, mass, etc...) as well as the aspect of sound (fall control, aural decoy); Two, the light-bending beings of Oocaile, known to have used sorcery that was more passive (cast light, repair, etc...). Third, and not as well known, is the warriors of Zena. We will talk about why they follow such things soon.

    Strangely enough, all three of these civilizations of intellect are beings who follow the aspect of one 'god', or in better specifics one dragon, who follows such ideals of intellectual power: Seath the Scaleless. Seath, being the grandfather of intelligence, might be the being who brought the prospect of bringing power from thyself, similar to that of the God of War. However, unlike the God of War, his philosophy was not of the physical self, but more so the mental one. s we see from Dusk, Domnhall, and other sorcerers are known to be that of the intellect, seeing as they are wise in their own sense, being that of a strong mind instead of a strong body. It might explain why Seath is not that of an everlasting dragon, being that the everlasting dragons were designed for possibly a balance between the physical and mental (fire and magic), however Seath followed the path of mental only (magic).

    But what is sorcery, before we begin? It is not that of miracles, in which borrows the power from existing gods and superior beings of magical potential. More so, the aspect of sorcery is more so independent than miracles. The aspect of sorcery was designed to gain power from thyself, which is similar to that of the God of War. However he believed in that of the arm, while sorcery aims for the very soul. Usually it aims for intellect, but nonetheless it still is aimed towards the power of the soul, which can be said the aspect of such magic is fueled by intellect. It does not have to be from a being either. Zena does not show much potential in being a civilization that uses magic, but still uses the aspect of sorcery. Not from the soul of thyself, but the soul of a weapon, a crystal weapon. As we know, when we give weapons and such items to Frampt, he consumes and possibly dissolves it into that of a soul, no matter what the item is. Crystals are known to be an aspect that fuels the power of sorcery magic when they are crystallized; it can be said that such crystallization also fuels the power of the weapon thyself. However, the aspect of crystals is also fragile.

    Crystals are brittle and breakable. Once they are used too much, they can not be repaired. Interestingly enough, the crystal weapons and items are worth nothing to Frampt when he consumes it. Now why that is, is known only to speculation at this time. he does not show hatred unlike Kaathe, who went against the very gods (interestingly enough, Seath shows potential of betraying Gwyn when he departed... but Frampt does not show concern about it. Kaathe is a little more speculative in his part). Crystal Weapons are indeed powerful, however makes it so that the aspect of such weapons and sorcery become... well, it removes the aspect of quantity. More so, every crystal weapon becomes brittle and of use only for a short time, however are more powerful than anything of normal usage. However, crystal magic does not follow such trends. They have the same amount of quantity as that of their original duplicates, but are more so powerful than the originals. So what are the consequences of crystals? Well, their is one catalyst, the tin crystallization catalyst, that haves the spells into that of greater magnitude. Interesting. It seems that the aspect of crystals does not fracture that of the intellect, but the physical aspect of the world. The tin crystal catalyst allows spells to also become even more powerful, but halves them in quantity. Similar to that of the crystal weapons players use within the world. It seems that the aspect of crystals are more so a benefit for that of the self than an item... so what makes it of Seath? We'll get to that soon.

    Now, the aspect of the three civilizations who follow the aspect of sorcery, of the intellect. Vinheim, a country, city, or something of that matter that follows the aspect of sorcery, is by far the most popular and known. For one, these students of the magical arts seem to follow the aspect of Seath himself. They have many rings that symbolizes dragons, in which seems to direct its content to both Seath and his cousins of sorts. They follow the aspect of srocery in which is indeed of the inner self, to find what is of themselves. However, they are not at all a peaceful form of beings. Indeed, they are dangerous. One aspect of danger are the black sorcerers. Students of sorcery who are known to use sorcery of stealth, as well as damaging weapons. Griggs, when provoked, is known to use a mail breaker. A rapier, yes, but also a dagger. Daggers usually affiliated with those of backstabbers and the direct (it does 120 critical, I might add). As well, they use hush, fall control, and aural decoy in order to get around. They are not sold by Logan at all, but instead only by Griggs (aural decoy and fall control) and from dead black sorcerers (Griggs and the black sorcerer corpse in Sen's Fortress). Instead of using blue dragon rings, which follows the aspect of sorcery, they have a blackish grey ring of stealth to move silently (found also in Sen's and Griggs' Corpse). It might be said that they were assassins of sorts. Only two are known to be alive, and the rest are known to be dead in Sen's, which coincidentally also is the prison of Logan when you first meet the great sorcerer hero. Why are they there is unknown. Is it to rescue the great sorcerer, or was it that these beings were following Logan until he got captured by the serpent men, in which his followers died.

    An interesting thing about Logan, is that he and his sorcerer comrades are all in a prison one way or another. Another being is also in prison as well, who also has comrades form his own country that are dead within Sen's Fortress: Lautrec. Now... Oscar is also tied to these beings as well. All three have the Oscar sign pointing out that they are in a prison (hidden until the use of seek guidance, which asks those of the balanced between faith and wisdom is required). Now, why that is, is unknown. Did he put them there in the first place, or did he know they were there at the start. As Oscar shows potential of existing for a long time, and Logan has been known to be undead for at least a hundred years... how long have these people been in prison for? Undead can not starve, they can not age... how long have these people been locked up for? Why does Oscar seem to point to these specific beings? As those who follow sorcery are those who usually are of interest of themselves, and Lautrec had no remorse for others in any aspect... it might be that they were locked up for a reason. Of course, I am becoming off track once more.

    I have speculated that the people of the dragon school are followers of Seath, as Seath follows the aspect of sorcery that is similar to that of Vinheim. In fact, Vinheim shows more favor of the dragons than any of the other intellectual civilizations out there. Of course, it does not make it Seath's favorite. Ow no, it is not. Seath aimed for power in the other schools instead, seemingly not caring at all for Vinheim other than him holding a valuable treasure form Vinheim, the strong magic shield. No, Seath has hois own treasures form across the world.

    One, I will say bluntly, is Zena. Now, we only know one person from Zena, in which we know the country is filled with modest people (as the character creator indicates if you pick that culture). However, the people of Zena are odd. The merchant Domhnall shows himself being that of a hero merchant of sorts, although he is always found at a hiding spot. As for what reason is unknown... perhaps he is hiding for the same reason as Oocaile. Domhnall is first found in the Depths, which is territory of the gaping dragon, which was possibly once known as a dragon king. His monarchy only hinted by the greataxe chopped form its tail. Strangely enough, all dragon tail weapons are all blades, except that this dragon is a blunt object instead, in which is of similar quality as that of a Demon Greataxe. However, it is still indeed powerful nonetheless like any dragon weapon. Anyways... Seath also has influence within the Depths as well, being that it has the Channelers, as well as other lesser dragons as the basilisks. Interesting enough, Dusk also had been in an area of Seaths as well, in which was guarded by a dragon (Hydra) as well as crystal golems. Creations made by Seath, as we all know (this goes back to #3 post within the Search for Lore, of course. However reruns must be taken). Later on, after the defeat of the iron golem (or at least the activity of the player within Sen's Fortress... I have seen him there even if the iron golem is not defeated), he moves under the water bridge that connects firelink to undead burg. This is where he usually sells his special merchandise after the player moves further in the game.

    Now, one aspect of him is interesting. His weapons for sale and of use are that of crystal weapons, in which are associated with Seath as well, as the many crystallized hollows as well as the crystal knight uses such weapons that Domhnall uses. The crystal knight also shows texture and design similar to Domhnall as well, which shows connections between the two cultures with colours and texture, although hard to tell at first glance. It may be that Seath found the way of crystals from Zena at best, or more so that perhaps Zena may have started to follow the aspect of Seath in terms of crystal weaponry. Who got it first is unknown, however Domhnall does have more to show. He is the ONLY being in the game to know about the Dragon Covenant, a covenant designed to make men into dragons (or more so undead into dragons, if you prefer). He also understands the aspect of other dragons such as the basilisks and there curses, in which questions the being of Zena as of what he knows of the dragons. As the Depths is infected by dragon influence, it can be said that he is their for a reason, and not for selling to those lost their (ya, doubt it). To sum up the crystal weapons, it is intersting to see that the crystal hollows do not use crystal shields, but rather shields that have symbols of the Caduceus, which is known as the ancient blue.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

    I had to find some information about such a thing as to why it is used. Interestingly enough, it bring ties of Greek and Roman ideals as well as Dark Souls closer together, connecting the God Mercury into play. He was a messenger of gods, guide of the dead, and protector of merchants, shepherds, thieves, gamblers, and liars. Interesting, is it not? It also is a symbol of commerence and negotiation. it seems to tie Zena and the Crystal hollows, as Zena follows such ideals as well. It is also interesting that the ancient blue Cauceus are two serpents on both the wodden shield found in the catacombs and the hollows in the archives. Strange... this shield is also sold by Andre as well. As Andre is a follower of the arm, Zena and the crystal weapons are also of similar taste towards the aspect of the God of War, as well as Seath. A Brittle combination, but still effective at the least.

    Perhaps the connection between Zena, Domhnall, Seath, and in general dragons is more... specific, than what we really know. perhaps, like dusk, he is that of royalty of sorts, as his armour shows that he was possibly an important person (or just that the armor is of symbolism within his culture, hard to tell). His ability to sell other fallen being's armor is also interesting as well. Iron Golem, gwyndolin, gwyn, ornstein, and smough.... all of them armour of the aspect of the sun gods. iron golem being that of the God of War/Blacksmith Deity. Ornstein and Smough, as the ideals of them show signs of them being illusions (look at before posts before arguing... its there somewhere) being that of ties towards Gwynevre's Illusive duplicate, who acts as a nexus for illusions... which brings us to our next civilization.

    Ooacile. Like Vinheim, it is a culture that is defined with the use of magic sorcery instead of physical ones, unlike the Zena and their crystal weaponry. However their magic is not of the aspect of sound and powerful sorcery, in which derives form thyself. More so, it derives from sorcery that uses the aspect of bending light. Their sorcery, as Dusk says, is complicated at best, and is different that the sorcerys of Vinheim. Designed for the focus of light bending at times, it is also of transformation and morphing, as seen by chameleon, stealth magic, cast light, and other such forms. As Vinheim uses sorcery that uses magic to amplify themselves, Ooacile magic uses that of changing thyself all together. I hope you understand, as I do not really know how to describe it properly.

    Ooacile I will not get into debate much, as I have constant amount of times in regards of lore sand her connection to Seath and other aspects of lordran, such as gwyndolin as such. (or more so the illusive gwynevre). However, it can be said again that she was stored away in a crystal golem, which are minions of Seath himself. A prize of Ooacile is the enchanted ember, which is guarded also by minions of Dragons, the Mushroom Men. These creatures are also found within ash lake and the great hollow, which are the homes of dragon creatures who do not reside in the rest of the world, hiding from sight of many. However, unlike the two other civilizations who do not show interest in the flame at all, Ooacile sees it as somewhat as a prayer of sorts, saying "May the Great Flame Guide Thee". Interesting... the Great Flame, the Flame of Disparity, functions similar to that of the aspects of Ooacile magic as well, with the bending and morphing of many aspects with time distortion, resurrection, and other forms that tie towards the Flame of Disparity, the First Flame.

    All of these civilizations tie to Seath, and seems that Seath acts as a God of sorts, being that his philosophy is somewhat taken into consideration. I do not know what happened to Zena or Ooacile. Perhaps Seath burned them, but that is hard to say, due to lack of information. Perhaps it can be seen to us soon... very soon. Last note, although not very important, all of their dress codes are very exotic, if many see them. All three of these civilizations do not have plain clothing as other civilizations, but instead are more exotic and pleasing to the eyes (well, for those who are formal, anyways).

    The search continues, I will post something about mildred and other beings soon. I found some things that might interest people into speculation.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:36 pm

    Have you been reading my and Tolvo's threads Acidic? winking


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    Post by User on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:41 pm

    Somewhat yes. I get my information mainly from dark souls, but I do look in the archives, yes.

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