Random Off-Topic

by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm

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Post n°726

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm

It happens over and over and it happens in the United States over and over.

Our draconian gun policies and those who believe any sort of firearm restriction is an assault on freedom are complicit in this tragedy.

by PlasticandRage Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 pm

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Post n°727

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 pm

I honestly don't really agree with that. I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I believe logic dictates that if a disturbed person chooses to become violent and kill people that it's going to happen whether a firearm is present or not. I don't want to get into a political debate about it, but I'd categorize that approach, at least to a certain degree, as the wrong direction. It's my belief that what we need is better training for teachers in the public school system to recognize and react to emotional/psychological disorders/issues that may not have been entirely recognized previously. I actually have a close family member whose a teacher in the public system and one whose essentially a case worker for children/adolescence with severe psychological problems, and there are so many times that I could objectively see parallels that could run between the two to allow both to run more effectively. I think that's where we need to be focusing our attention. Offering up a scapegoat isn't going to help anything. I don't think it has anything to do with an assault on freedom, but I think the clear problem here wasn't access to weapons, but neglect of psychological problems.

by Tolvo Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:39 pm

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Post n°728

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Tolvo Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:39 pm

I disagree completely Plastic, it's obviously because of video games.

I just think it is a combination of a lot of things. Like how most problems develop. I'm not going to even attempt to have a way to solve it though. It's out of my league.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:05 am

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Post n°729

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:05 am

Exactly. I think the solution is logic. Plain and simple. I'm going to spoiler this, because it's been stated over and over that this isn't the place for politics, but if you happen to be interested in my humble perspectives, I'll pose a simple theoretical question.

Spoiler:

by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am

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Post n°730

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am

Plastic while your point stands, I cannot kill 20 people quickly and easily with a screwdriver. Guns allow untrained people to quickly and easily take a lot of lives.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:23 am

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Post n°731

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:23 am

The internet can be accessed worldwide by any number of motivated people, and used to construct something that could potentially accomplish the same thing.

I'm not defending firearms. I'm really not. My point is more that we should be bringing up how the approach I already see being taken, through news reporting throughout the day, doesn't approach what I'd consider the root cause.

by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:27 am

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Post n°732

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:27 am

And thats a similar point. But you cannot control the internet as easily as you can who is allowed to own guns. You can't encompass all weapons ans stuff under this roof of "Its not the weapon its the person". Going on a rampage with a gun and a knife and 2 massively different things. In one you can kill 26 people with ease. With the other people can run away from you, they can even attack you back because you cant kill them from 10 metres away.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:34 am

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Post n°733

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:34 am

Sure you can. Our country could place bans on all kinds of things if they were so inclined. It wouldn't make it the right thing to do, but it could be done. I don't necessarily think that the implementation of better training would make all the difference either, but I think it would make more of a difference than approaching these situations from standpoints that are essentially hardwired based on our two party agendas. Case and point, I'm having this same discussion on facebook right now, and was just accused of thinking guns are cool because I play video games so much. It's a reaction based on whichever hardwired agenda your party thinks you should have. Instead of being logical about it, people are faced with problems that are so horrifying, and so beyond imagining, that it's easier to point the finger at things they've already been made to believe are evil and bad. As a nation, I just wish we would stop and think before we take action instead. I personally just can't believe that more emphasis on human care is the wrong way to go.

Last edited by PlasticandRage on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total

by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:37 am

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Post n°734

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by DoughGuy Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:37 am

It wouldn't. The root of the problem should be addressed. But thats a much longer road than simply enforcing stricter gun laws which will, in the meantime, slash the number of people lost in each of these attacks.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:42 am

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Post n°735

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:42 am

People who want to commit violence will find ways to do it regardless. For me the numbers are less important than the actions themselves. The loss of one child's life to a root cause of neglected psychological issues is just as bad as 20. Either way it's an ultimately unnecessary tragedy.

by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:49 am

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Post n°736

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:49 am

Agreed Dough, anyone who has access to a gun with ammo can do great harm. I don't thinks it's video games but the persons psychology and childhood that attribute this. What has happened this year so far? The Aurora movie shooting, an almost copy-cat for Twilight, and the last one I can think was a shooting in a crowded mall. I think it is time that the U.S.A. takes stricter(?) actions on gun laws in the federal level than the states. How each state does it I don't know. My two issues are that this will taken out of context for some political bull or that this splits people over the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. I should look at the law on guns in my state.

Also last time I check I think CNN said the toll was around thirty. Children...man I know worse has happened and will but....I hope they are at peace at least...

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:53 am

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Post n°737

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:53 am

^ It's 27. 7 adults and 20 children. It's sickening is what it is. I was watching interviews with their classmates when I got home this afternoon. They're babies. I know children that are that age. I have a friend that has a little boy who just started kindergarten this year. They're babies. I don't usually get emotional about these things. Generally I tend to be pretty desensitized when things happen that aren't directly effecting my life, but I'm having trouble not feeling this one on some level.

by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:08 am

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Post n°738

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:08 am

Yeah that really is as sick as I can think of at the moment. I'm studying Law and it's enforcement and from what I am learning that the things people can do is like a abyss. You just can't find an end to it no matter how hard you look. Ever smell a dead body (A relative who died natural for me)? You never forget the smell. Hate to say it but we must learn from this and to...at least lesson future events like this. Because it will happen again...

I still remember what happened on 9/11...first thing that happened my mother took me home from school. She was scared for my safety despite not being anywhere near it. More recent was that two years ago as my mom picked me up from my old school (let out) and we drove past the neighboring school and we see the police arrest three or four maybe 11th or 10th graders with armed automatic weapons that hold maybe 600-700 rounds each. S*** like that makes you be glad to live.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:48 am

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Post n°739

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:48 am

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Yeah that really is as sick as I can think of at the moment. I'm studying Law and it's enforcement and from what I am learning that the things people can do is like a abyss. You just can't find an end to it no matter how hard you look. Ever smell a dead body (A relative who died natural for me)? You never forget the smell. Hate to say it but we must learn from this and to...at least lesson future events like this. Because it will happen again...

I still remember what happened on 9/11...first thing that happened my mother took me home from school. She was scared for my safety despite not being anywhere near it. More recent was that two years ago as my mom picked me up from my old school (let out) and we drove past the neighboring school and we see the police arrest three or four maybe 11th or 10th graders with armed automatic weapons that hold maybe 600-700 rounds each. S*** like that makes you be glad to live.

It certainly makes you reexamine your perspective of everyday concepts like family and mortality. My mother and I were just discussing how when I was in elementary school we had drills for things like fires and occasionally bombs, because I was in elementary school in the 80s, when things like the USSR were still an American fear, and things like drills for bus accidents, but we didn't have precautions or drills for things like this because they simply weren't a concern at that time. Nothing like this had really ever happened, aside from the Texas State massacre, in the 50s I believe, but we just didn't worry about them on a community level. My mother, whose a public school teacher, apparently has to run drills with the rest of her faculty for events like this now, and they have to have action plans for them, and I guess they have all kinds of literature to study on information that's good to know in case it were to happen. Just that fact in itself is a pretty sad statement.

by retro Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:03 am

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Post n°740

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by retro Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:03 am

This hit way too close to home for me.

Newtown is my hometown, grew up there and graduated from Newtown High School. My mom is an early childhood development specialist, and she was supposed to be at the elementary school for a meeting today, at 9:45 (shooting began at 9:40?). It was canceled this morning due to a student illness. If that didn't happen, she would've been there.

It's really shaken me up, knowing what it would've been like for my mom to have seen the carnage, or worse, had her last moments in sheer terror in the face of a mass-murdering psycho. Afterall, the principal and pyschologist were killed, so I think the gunman may have entered the administrative offices, where my mom would have been.

***.

I don't personally know anyone who died, but I'm sure I'll be hearing some pretty awful things through friends of friends about lost loved ones. My thoughts go out to everyone affected by this. I should be happy that my mom is ok, and I am, but it still hit me pretty hard.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:07 am

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Post n°741

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:07 am

retro wrote:This hit way too close to home for me.

Newtown is my hometown, grew up there and graduated from Newtown High School. My mom is an early childhood development specialist, and she was supposed to be at the elementary school for a meeting today, at 9:45 (shooting began at 9:40?). It was canceled this morning due to a student illness. If that didn't happen, she would've been there.

It's really shaken me up, knowing what it would've been like for my mom to have seen the carnage, or worse, had her last moments in sheer terror in the face of a mass-murdering psycho. Afterall, the principal and pyschologist were killed, so I think the gunman may have entered the administrative offices, where my mom would have been.

***.

I don't personally know anyone who died, but I'm sure I'll be hearing some pretty awful things through friends of friends about lost loved ones. My thoughts go out to everyone affected by this. I should be happy that my mom is ok, and I am, but it still hit me pretty hard.

Glad to hear your mom is safe retro. None of this is good at all, but I'm glad for you for that.

by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:18 am

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Post n°742

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:18 am

Things have and always will change for the better or worse in the world. What is causing things like this today maybe answered when we are considered history. I don't fear death, but I will fight to keep it and another if needed. The way I see it, back then we had to worry about what the country next to ours could do and keep the nation safe. Now I think we lost unity in favor for expressing our mind and culture as an indiviual(?) such as Mexican, Cuban, etc better than before. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, everything has it's pros and cons, but that it led to some seeing theirs as a better way than others. And that lead to infighting or terrorism. Problem with some is that they see who started it as the enemy: which I saw was Muslims at first, then I took a look at their faith. People need to remember that the Quran forbids murder and suicide and these terrorist are not true followers.

Now I think we are moving away from terrorism to the role of all governments in regards to people's natural rights. And this shooting may be the first step in the U.S.A.

by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:20 am

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Post n°743

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Soris Ice Goldwing Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:20 am

Wow retro thats way scary...You better tell her how much she means to you!

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:42 am

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Post n°744

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:42 am

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Problem with some is that they see who started it as the enemy: which I saw was Muslims at first, then I took a look at their faith. People need to remember that the Quran forbids murder and suicide and these terrorist are not true followers.

The Islamic faith is a really beautiful tradition. I find the Sufi sect to be particularly moving. It's all about emptying yourself of corporeal complications so that you're more open to experiencing love. Sort of like Taoism in that respect.

It's no different than any other religious philosophy in that regard. There are crazy people all over the world. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what spiritual tradition they subscribe to. There are nutty Christians who want to kill people in the name of Christ, who absolutely don't speak for all Christians. A majority of the Western world just finds it easier to blame the entirety of their tradition because our media tells them to. They don't bother finding out for themselves.

by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:39 am

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Post n°745

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:39 am

I always love Dark Age Islam. It may have been the Dark Ages in Europe, but people were really faithful to their holy book in the Middle East. This was so closely held to heart, bands of raiders would only take what supplies they needed from villages since they didn't want to see the people die. Hell in warfare they didn't even kill civilians, poisoning a watering hole was unheard of. Then their governments *** it all up. People forget that there was a time when the Middle East was the sanctuary of humanity, I'm hoping some day it will be like that again.

Also Retro, whatever holiday you celebrate I'm glad you can spend it again this winter with your Mother.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:00 am

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Post n°746

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:00 am

Tolvo wrote:I always love Dark Age Islam. It may have been the Dark Ages in Europe, but people were really faithful to their holy book in the Middle East. This was so closely held to heart, bands of raiders would only take what supplies they needed from villages since they didn't want to see the people die. Hell in warfare they didn't even kill civilians, poisoning a watering hole was unheard of. Then their governments *** it all up. People forget that there was a time when the Middle East was the sanctuary of humanity, I'm hoping some day it will be like that again.

I'm sure the whole Crusades thing didn't help matters either.

by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:05 am

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Post n°747

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:05 am

No it did not, definitely one of the major contributing factors.

Always reminds me of why I get pissed off when people talk about the historical accuracy of Assassin's Creed.

The Knights Templar and Assassins were allies that worked together to help destabilize the governments of the Middle East they disliked.

by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:01 am

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Post n°748

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by PlasticandRage Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:01 am

It's all historical fiction. It doesn't require accuracy to be good. I at least like that they try. I don't think what you're talking about is the game's fault. If people interpret what they're presented with in a freakin video game as accurate historical truth not only is it nobodies problem but theirs, but I'm guessing that's not the only problem they've got to worry about.

All the art in them makes me happy. When I saw that you could populate your Villa in AC2 with Italian Renaissance works of art I was pretty happy. Not only that, but they give you little blurbs explaining them to you. Everything I read there, that I had any prior knowledge about, was accurate. The literature in ACRev too actually, but, surprisingly, I found that I knew a lot less about the literature they chose than the visual art.

by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:26 am

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Post n°749

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Tolvo Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:26 am

Well I didn't say I get pissed at the game for that aspect, but when people talk about it. I know grown men who talk about the Knights Templar organization from the video game as if they were real, and how they believe they are being 2012(That disaster). It's really ridiculous. Just as I know a guy who researches history by playing Dynasty Warriors.

by Spurgun Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:02 am

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Post n°750

Re: Random Off-Topic

Post by Spurgun Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:02 am

So what has happened? From what i've read here it seems very sad and tragic.

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