New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

While Dark Souls is a game that leans in the direction of realistic martial arts, it only LEANS in that direction. At its heart, its still a fantasy game. I'm sure that the martial arts community has very little input regarding how to wield Smough's Hammer or a massive Dragon's Tooth.

Realism is not the reason that dual-wielding was nerfed. It's just difficult to balance, is all.

carlucio wrote:There should a agressive stance that you activate and then kill NPCs, at my first playthrough i had to kill the first merchant because i hit him with a roll.

Agreed. Kingdoms of Amalur did this beautifully. You could swing at NPCs without harming them, but if you wanted to kill them, you could activate that mode. Really handy.

bosslugger wrote:

carlucio wrote:There should a agressive stance that you activate and then kill NPCs, at my first playthrough i had to kill the first merchant because i hit him with a roll.

Agreed. Kingdoms of Amalur did this beautifully. You could swing at NPCs without harming them, but if you wanted to kill them, you could activate that mode. Really handy.

Or you can just not be stupid and hit attack when you're talking to one.. I don't think souls is the kinda series to add in functions that are just to protect people from their own stupidity for free..

Sorry for the kinda dogmatic tone, but there's far more important things to put in other than something like you suggested

Serious_Much wrote:

bosslugger wrote:

carlucio wrote:There should a agressive stance that you activate and then kill NPCs, at my first playthrough i had to kill the first merchant because i hit him with a roll.

Agreed. Kingdoms of Amalur did this beautifully. You could swing at NPCs without harming them, but if you wanted to kill them, you could activate that mode. Really handy.

Or you can just not be stupid and hit attack when you're talking to one.. I don't think souls is the kinda series to add in functions that are just to protect people from their own stupidity for free..

Sorry for the kinda dogmatic tone, but there's far more important things to put in other than something like you suggested

I see your point, but also see mine: sometimes it's not about "being stupid". I have rolled into barrels near Griggs to get the treasure, and inadvertently rolled into him, causing him to immediately aggro me. That's just bad design. Others have set down their controller, accidentally hitting R2 and attacking the NPC. Also a problem. It's not so difficult to have a button to turn aggro on/off - then it's the user's choice how to proceed.
But yes, to your point, Souls never makes any choices easy for you, so you take the bad with the good.

Acarnatia wrote:Nearly every culture and martial arts style flat-out said 'never duel-wield'.

I realize you said "nearly," but some martial arts styles have found duel-wielding to be quite useful. Eskrima, for example. Rather than saying that duel-wielding should never be implemented in a game that wants to replicate realistic combat, I think it makes more sense to say that if dual-wielding is in fact implemented, the mechanics should be based on the martial arts styles that have found duel-wielding viable. (I.e., you could duel-wield, but it would only be effective if you used an eskrima style .)

bosslugger wrote:I see your point, but also see mine: sometimes it's not about "being stupid". I have rolled into barrels near Griggs to get the treasure, and inadvertently rolled into him, causing him to immediately aggro me. That's just bad design.

If that happened it's because you had the armour of thorns on. It's impossible to agro someone by rolling into them without it. Laurentius would agro every time I free him from the barrel because I do it no other way.

Interesting read, I can see where people will worry on some points but all in all I'm still nuetral on whether or not that Dark Souls 2 will improve or doom the Souls Series. Honestly it is still to early and it's just one interview. I personally want gameplay footage before I take a side fully. Though I slightly lean to change is good side of things. Honestly Demon's Souls to Dark Souls had many changes and both games are awesome. I think we just all worry that change is bad but with it still being a long way off from a release and no footage of the gameplay I think we are judging to quickly on that this game will doom the series. Just have to wait and see.

Serious_Much wrote:Or you can just not be stupid and hit attack when you're talking to one.. I don't think souls is the kinda series to add in functions that are just to protect people from their own stupidity for free..

Sorry for the kinda dogmatic tone, but there's far more important things to put in other than something like you suggested

Agreed. In Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls before it), your actions can have permanent consequences, and that's one of the many cool things about the game, particularly in terms of player immersion.

As for the EDGE article:

"Miyazaki is out."
Optimism... fading...

"More accessible and straightforward."
Anger... rising...

"More action-oriented."
Brownies... burning...

Seriously though, I've gone from sheer joy and optimism to a much more cautious "wait and see" approach, which is a shame, but at the end of the day I'm just reacting to the evidence put before me so far. Which isn't a great deal, of course.

Anyway, I hope the game turns out great, I really do. We'll see.

This is really silly. In-game "consequences" that can permanently impact an entire playthrough, just for accidentally hitting the wrong button while trying to buy something from a merchant? Do you really hear yourselves?

It would only be immersive if you actually INTENDED to do it. This is a game, so designers have to account for unintentional things like that, which is why they fixed it later on in Dark Souls.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a quick fix just to allow us to sheathe/unsheathe our weapons?

The Letter X wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a quick fix just to allow us to sheathe/unsheathe our weapons?

Dear god, I would so love that option, for various reasons, including role playing. Who walks around with their weapon in their hand 24/7?

Another fix is that the NPCs could just give the player a few warnings before going hostile.

MasterofShadows wrote:This is really silly. In-game "consequences" that can permanently impact an entire playthrough, just for accidentally hitting the wrong button while trying to buy something from a merchant? Do you really hear yourselves?

It would only be immersive if you actually INTENDED to do it. This is a game, so designers have to account for unintentional things like that, which is why they fixed it later on in Dark Souls.

I like the mentality of precision and paying attention to your actions, that you should be careful because those actions - even if unintended - have consequences. If you don't, fair enough. Different strokes.

Nessima017 wrote:Another fix is that the NPCs could just give the player a few warnings before going hostile.

Yeah, that's the suggestion I posed earlier in the convo.

Dogwelder wrote:

MasterofShadows wrote:This is really silly. In-game "consequences" that can permanently impact an entire playthrough, just for accidentally hitting the wrong button while trying to buy something from a merchant? Do you really hear yourselves?

It would only be immersive if you actually INTENDED to do it. This is a game, so designers have to account for unintentional things like that, which is why they fixed it later on in Dark Souls.

I like the mentality of precision and paying attention to your actions, that you should be careful because those actions - even if unintended - have consequences. If you don't, fair enough. Different strokes.

Sure, but don't get pissed off at the game when your dog or cat steps on your controller or you drop it while playing, which causes you hit someone important, and break your game for the rest of the playthrough.

The Letter X wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a quick fix just to allow us to sheathe/unsheathe our weapons?

Sounds to me like a cool idea and a good compromise.

MasterofShadows wrote:

Dogwelder wrote:

MasterofShadows wrote:This is really silly. In-game "consequences" that can permanently impact an entire playthrough, just for accidentally hitting the wrong button while trying to buy something from a merchant? Do you really hear yourselves?

It would only be immersive if you actually INTENDED to do it. This is a game, so designers have to account for unintentional things like that, which is why they fixed it later on in Dark Souls.

I like the mentality of precision and paying attention to your actions, that you should be careful because those actions - even if unintended - have consequences. If you don't, fair enough. Different strokes.

Sure, but don't get pissed off at the game when your dog or cat steps on your controller or you drop it while playing, which causes you hit someone important, and break your game for the rest of the playthrough.

Not having any pets, frankly I'd be more pissed off at whoever had snuck a cat or dog into my house.

Seriously though. Do you get my point?

One of the really annoying things about playing dark souls with a ps3 controller is that some times the r2 will flick when you put it down so im really for the sheathing of weapons.

Nessima017 wrote:One of the really annoying things about playing dark souls with a ps3 controller is that some times the r2 will flick when you put it down so im really for the sheathing of weapons.

Exactly, this is also something that I've tried to stress to those who want to abandon the absolution mechanic. I can't tell you how many times I've placed my control on the floor and ended up activating one of the L2 or R2 attacks.

MasterofShadows wrote:

Nessima017 wrote:One of the really annoying things about playing dark souls with a ps3 controller is that some times the r2 will flick when you put it down so im really for the sheathing of weapons.

Exactly, this is also something that I've tried to stress to those who want to abandon the absolution mechanic. I can't tell you how many times I've placed my control on the floor and ended up activating one of the L2 or R2 attacks.

Yeah it really isnt fun when i get really paranoid about my finger placement when approaching a npc and have to turn round just to make sure i dont accidently tap the extremly sensitive r2/l2 button.

MasterofShadows wrote:Seriously though. Do you get my point?

I do, and of course I recognise it as a potential problem. But I just avoid it by being careful not to do it, that's all. That's just my personal approach. But of course mistakes can happen.

MasterofShadows wrote:

Nessima017 wrote:Another fix is that the NPCs could just give the player a few warnings before going hostile.

Yeah, that's the suggestion I posed earlier in the convo.

Do you think soneone gives you a warning if they hack you with a sword? Somehow I don't think so.

To be honest I guess it's a point, but it's really your fault if you wreck your world, there should be consequences and lessening those to me waters down the importance of your actions in the game world.

Serious_Much wrote:

MasterofShadows wrote:

Nessima017 wrote:Another fix is that the NPCs could just give the player a few warnings before going hostile.

Yeah, that's the suggestion I posed earlier in the convo.

Do you think soneone gives you a warning if they hack you with a sword? Somehow I don't think so.

To be honest I guess it's a point, but it's really your fault if you wreck your world, there should be consequences and lessening those to me waters down the importance of your actions in the game world.

You're telling me that its actually good game design to punish a player for either dropping his controller or pressing the wrong input while trying to navigate through the freaking menu? If so, its a good thing you aren't working on the game.

Imagine that you've been spending hours, maybe days, hunting down the required amount of slabs to level up a particular item. You finally get to the only Blacksmith that is able to modify that particular weapon and use those slabs, and accidentally hit the wrong input while navigating through the menu. You end up hitting the guy. You actually think its okay to force the player to have to wait until NG to try again? Really?