The Necromancer of the Catacombs

Just a small thought that randomly dawned on me today...

What kind of creature is Pinwheel? Was he an actual person changed by necrotic experiments, or was he simply a three-headed entity of death?

And why does he hold the Rite of Kindling?

Hmm thats a good question..... the pinwheels IMO and there is no eveidence that I know of to back this up..... could actually be the occultists who tried to seize Nito's power.

Have a look on the Effigy Shield for that bit of info.

Also perhaps the boss pinwheel we fight is the same entity that normally would resided in the smaller open coffin next to Nito.

Just a few thoughts

The boss pinwheel is just a normal pinwheel. Th epower of the rite of kindling allows it to make copies and teleport. Its nothing special.

Perhaps it is unique due to the rite of kidlings effects?

Connecting Pinwheel to the Effigy shield brings up interesting theories:
-That he was perhaps a disgruntled servant of Nito
-Attempted to seize control of Nito's power

And we see where he ended up. Perhaps he uses the Rite of Kindling as a way of hiding his true body from Nito, so he doesn't get killed for treason...does this explains the number of Pinwheel copies right before Nito's room?

The boss pinwheel was just one of the pinwheels who guarded Nito until he stole the rite. Then Nito, due to his nature, never attempted to get it back while the pinwheel tried to unlock its power and replicate Nito's power.

thats a rather general assumption. that case is about as strong as my own..... neither of which having any evidence?

If he wasnt a significant Pinwheel then why make him a boss and not some other dead thing?

Because he's not really a boss is he? The fact that Leeroy kills him while protecting Nito shows he is not on Nito's side. The rite of kindling has power, thats easy enough to tell. It makes sense after researching it for ages he would have a few tricks. Really there is no reason to believe he is unique given the circumstances.

Leeroy kills him doing what?

Leeory helps you kill Pinwheel.
He then tries to kill you when you go to kill Nito.
Shows The 2 are enemies, at least in my eyes.

I dont think that qualifies as evidence.....

But Ill agree they arent on the same side. Thus I would suggest that pinwheel did used to reside by Nito but his betrayal landed him outside of mercy from Nito and the WoW

Quote from the Pinwheel masks: "One of the three masks of the Pinwheel, the necromancer who stole the power of the Gravelord, and reigns over the Catacombs.".

According to this, Pinwheel did steal Nito's power. But the question about whether the boss is more important than the other Pinwheels still remains. Maybe there is only one Pinwheel who always had the ability to make copies of himself, and the others are just lost copies of him from when he stole the Rite (I got this idea from somewhere else but I can't remember where I read it). When the Effigy Shield says "the followers of the occult once attempted to steal the power of Gravelord Nito", the 'followers' would be referring to the copies of Pinwheel.

I'm not sure about why the copies now guard Nito. Maybe it's because they've been separated from the original Pinwheel, who is too far away to be able to control them, so they sought out a new purpose, defending Nito instead.

I hope that all made sense and you understand what I'm trying to say.

While that seems possible, it seems like you're making it more difficult that it needs to be. There is more than one necromancer in the catacombs, I don't see why there can't be more than one Pinwheel in the tomb.

Pinwheel is not a particularly challenging boss; he's definitely not some super powerful entity. You seem to suggest that Pinwheel's clones are autonomous from the main body, but when you kill him in the boss fight, any copies disappear as well. That would seem to indicate to me that they are different Pinwheels than the ones you fight in the Catacombs.

On a separate note, I'm not so sure that Leeroy is working for Nito when you kill Pinwheel. It always seemed to me that Leeroy fought his way down to Nito, lost, and then was forced to guard his tomb.

I think that Pinwheel is actually some very powerful entity, either someone that used occult power to trascend flesh and blood, or a very powerful occult-related spirit. The magic he uses (the ball of light or how he can multiply) doesn't fit with anything we have seen (be it soul sorceries, oolacile spells, etc). This leads me to think that it is actually occult magic. I also don't think we really kill him in-game. First, item descriptions call him "the Pinwheel", not "one of the Pinwheels" nor any other phrase that could make us think that there's a "race" of Pinwheels that he's part of. This raises the question of what the hell the Pinwheels we fight in ToG are, since we already "killed" the boss.....well, I think that they are avatars of Pinwheel, manifestations of the same entity, that didn't truly die. This isn't such a wild guess, as we do see him multiply before...

I'm also sure that the Tomb of the Giants is not on Nito's control, but under Pinwheel's. The room before Nito's fog door looks like the minor Pinwheels are keeping Nito trapped, in fact, the fog door leading to Nito is sort of sealed/barricaded. My guess is that Pinwheel, who reigned over the Catacombs, advanced to the Tomb of the Giants to steal the Gravelord's power, and thus the giant skeletons and skeleton dogs are at his command.

So is the boss Pinwheel that we fight guarding the catacombs instead of hiding from Nito?

Also, whether or not the Tomb is under Nito's control is debatable. It may be that the Pinwheel's control the Tomb for Nito and Nito just gets to sleep all day or something. It always seemed to me that Pinwheel was created by Nito, rather than being human originally.

I don't think he was created by Nito, as the masks say "One of the three masks of the Pinwheel, the necromancer who stole the power of the Gravelord, and reigns over the Catacombs.".

Also, I think the Pinwheel we fight is just there researching necromancy. I doubt it's "hiding from Nito", since he's in a giant open coffin right next to the ToG, very close to the giant skeletons. Also, the minor pinwheels seem to be keeping Nito inside the boss room, rather than defending it or something. It makes sense, since Pinwheel stole his power.....

"I doubt it's "hiding from Nito", since he's in a giant open coffin right next to the ToG"
Where's your proof for this?

Maybe the giant coffin, due to the size way bigger than the size of Pinwheel, belong to Nito before. Pinwheel stole the power of Nito and put him where he actually is, a cave without exit guarded by the Pinwheel's creatures ?

Where's your proof for this?

Proof? err Pinwheel's arena is a huge open coffin that can be seen from the ToG, and is open, and it even has stairs that go down to it. Doesn't really seem like he a hiding spot.....

Plus why would he hide, if his minions have Nito's fog door sealed? as I said, there's nothing in the game that points to a race of Pinwheels, and we see the boss creating clones of himself before, so.....

I never really noticed that the arena you fight Pinwheel in is a giant coffin. That's a good observation.

Thinking about it, the room that you fight Nito in is a rather strange place for a coffin. It's propped up against the wall rather unceremoniously.

I'm not sure if I agree that Pinwheel basically defeated Nito, but I can definitely see your argument now.

A couple of interesting questions, though. First, the coffin that we see Pinwheel in first was originally closed. Looking at the coffin laying above it, it seems to me that the Tomb of the Giants was originally blocked off completely. If we assume that that was Nito's original coffin, why would he put it there? The sacrifice to Nito theory is interesting, but clearly the residents of Lordran entombed their dead in the Catacombs as well.

Second, how did Leeroy get to Nito's resting place if Pinwheel was guarding him? Leeroy is shown to be opposed to Pinwheel, as he helps us kill him, so it seems strange that the clones just let him in to see Nito. Especially if the Pinwheels are trying to keep Nito isolated.

CaligoIllioneus wrote:

Where's your proof for this?

Proof? err Pinwheel's arena is a huge open coffin that can be seen from the ToG, and is open, and it even has stairs that go down to it. Doesn't really seem like he a hiding spot.....

Plus why would he hide, if his minions have Nito's fog door sealed? as I said, there's nothing in the game that points to a race of Pinwheels, and we see the boss creating clones of himself before, so.....

Actually misread what you said. I thought you were saying he lives in the coffin next to Nito. The white fog door is a game mechanic, they dont have it "sealed". I've speculated before Nito is a god of inaction. Much like the dead he wont take an active role in anything. He has his skeletons (like the one that brings you to him to join the GLs) do everything for him. SO he's not sealed up, he just doesnt go out at all.

I wasn't talking that much about the fog door itself but about the breakable stuff that is blocking it.

Yours is a plausible interpretation, by the way....as are a lot of them, since DkS lore is quite vague.

As for Leeroy, well, I don't know if I have answers right now...I will have to think about it. He's a mysterious figure, especially how he helps you once and then invades you.

TheLolrider wrote:I never really noticed that the arena you fight Pinwheel in is a giant coffin. That's a good observation.

Thinking about it, the room that you fight Nito in is a rather strange place for a coffin. It's propped up against the wall rather unceremoniously.

I'm not sure if I agree that Pinwheel basically defeated Nito, but I can definitely see your argument now.

A couple of interesting questions, though. First, the coffin that we see Pinwheel in first was originally closed. Looking at the coffin laying above it, it seems to me that the Tomb of the Giants was originally blocked off completely. If we assume that that was Nito's original coffin, why would he put it there? The sacrifice to Nito theory is interesting, but clearly the residents of Lordran entombed their dead in the Catacombs as well.

Second, how did Leeroy get to Nito's resting place if Pinwheel was guarding him? Leeroy is shown to be opposed to Pinwheel, as he helps us kill him, so it seems strange that the clones just let him in to see Nito. Especially if the Pinwheels are trying to keep Nito isolated.

Well Leeroy must have killed Pinwheel in his world. Then he obviously thought - 'holy **** that was the hardest battle I've had in my life, I just scraped through it!!! I'm gonna put down my summon sign and help other people get through that horrible ordeal.

Another interesting note is Leeroy's gear inside a coffin in Nito's pit.

Peaceful Wollyhop wrote:

TheLolrider wrote:I never really noticed that the arena you fight Pinwheel in is a giant coffin. That's a good observation.

Thinking about it, the room that you fight Nito in is a rather strange place for a coffin. It's propped up against the wall rather unceremoniously.

I'm not sure if I agree that Pinwheel basically defeated Nito, but I can definitely see your argument now.

A couple of interesting questions, though. First, the coffin that we see Pinwheel in first was originally closed. Looking at the coffin laying above it, it seems to me that the Tomb of the Giants was originally blocked off completely. If we assume that that was Nito's original coffin, why would he put it there? The sacrifice to Nito theory is interesting, but clearly the residents of Lordran entombed their dead in the Catacombs as well.

Second, how did Leeroy get to Nito's resting place if Pinwheel was guarding him? Leeroy is shown to be opposed to Pinwheel, as he helps us kill him, so it seems strange that the clones just let him in to see Nito. Especially if the Pinwheels are trying to keep Nito isolated.

Well Leeroy must have killed Pinwheel in his world. Then he obviously thought - 'holy **** that was the hardest battle I've had in my life, I just scraped through it!!! I'm gonna put down my summon sign and help other people get through that horrible ordeal.

Another interesting note is Leeroy's gear inside a coffin in Nito's pit.

I believe the reason Leeroy's gear is found on a corpse inside Nito's pit is most likely due to Leeroy losing to Nito. Paladins most always fight against undead/living dead abominations/creatures (there are many other video games, books, storeis, etc, that have Paladins taking on undead). So, Leeroy could possibly be on some sort of "holy mission" to get rid of Nito whom he maybe sees as the source of the undead (skeleton creatures, etc.)?

Leeroy helps you with Pinwheel possibly because it lies within his own interests, then invades you near Nito's area to stop you from killing Nito because he wants the glory of the kill? After defeating Leeroy and then defeating Nito, you find Leeroy's armor on a corpse, which has always led me to believe Leeroy made it to Nito and got squished good by him!