DoughGuy wrote:But if he isnt our GoW then we still need to find ours. And if its different for each world knowing its Solaire in another doesn't help our search.
Odd are our God of War left Lordran like all of the other gods
DoughGuy wrote:But if he isnt our GoW then we still need to find ours. And if its different for each world knowing its Solaire in another doesn't help our search.
ViralEnsign_ wrote:DoughGuy wrote:But if he isnt our GoW then we still need to find ours. And if its different for each world knowing its Solaire in another doesn't help our search.
Odd are our God of War left Lordran like all of the other gods
DoughGuy wrote:Your world is the real world. So is Solaire's. So is every chosen undead's. Solaire is a chosen undead, he links with the flame, he can;t be the GoW (unless Shkar is right and the player is the GoW). He exists in a separate world to you, his own world. The GoW exists in your world. Therefore they cannot be the same.
Siegfried. wrote:Personally, I believe the player character isn't the God of War because it simply seems so unlike FromSoftware to do that. The idea behind the creation of the player character is that they might be anyone from any background; simply one of many branded with the Darksign and therefore able to use souls to empower themselves. And empower oneself with enough souls, and you can exceed the gods already. We know that all undead can do this because souls are used as currency -- what use are souls that simply sit there, unused? So the player character can complete the objectives of the game because their determination allows them to harvest a large amount of souls. Nothing special, apart from our will to continue with and complete the game (representing the unyielding will of our undead character).
So to make the player character inherently special would detract from one of the themes implied in the gameplay experience, which I'm sure FromSoftware are entirely aware of. If there's a God of War in the game, I don't see any reason he couldn't be the Firstborn -- and if the Firstborn is in the game, it's Solaire. The Sunlight Warriors connection hypothesis is old and well-worn at this point, but I still think it's the most likely option.
Consider that lightning in this game is one of the markers of true divinity. Ornstein, a direct servant of Gwyn, is characterised by his weapon's lightning damage and its effectiveness against dragons. Gwyn himself harnessed lightning, and lightning weapons are only made by the Anor Londo blacksmith. Furthermore, lightning damage can only be harnessed by the player via that blacksmith or Faith-related abilities. The Sunlight Warriors covenant is the only covenant that provides lightning-based damage -- its power is directly connected to the gods of Anor Londo, and probably more specifically, Gwyn. Even Gwyndolin's Darkmoon covenant harnesses magic damage rather than lightning damage.
Solaire is the only Sunlight Warrior we meet as an NPC and the only human we see harness lightning. We also find the Lightning Blade miracle in the tomb of Gwyn as a sort of posthumous parting gift, which at the very least suggests a link to the Sunlight Warriors. In the Catacombs, there's also a tomb holding the corpse of a member of the Blades of Darkmoon, and the statue behind it is identical to the one you fight in both the Undead Parish church and right near the Sunlight Altar. So we can establish some kind of link between the Blades of the Darkmoon and the Sunlight Warriors beyond them both just happening to serve (allegedly) the same master.
Keep in mind that of all the godly covenants, only the Way of White was actually established by human beings; the Sunlight Warriors, Blades of the Darkmoon and the Princess Guard all answer to the gods directly rather than to their own organisational leaders. It's interesting to note that of the major gods we're aware of within Gwyn's immediate pantheon, there's one covenant that responds to each:
- The Blades of the Darkmoon responds to Gwyndolin.
- The Princess Guard responds to Gwynevere.
- The Sunlight Warriors respond to the God of War, who may also be the Firstborn.
If Solaire is indeed both the God of War and the Firstborn, it makes sense that he is the only NPC that directly harnesses lightning damage. It is also said that the God of War "watches over his warriors", which may be a poetic way of implying that he lends them power via lightning-based miracles. Furthermore, the Ring of the Sun's Firstborn provides a damage boost to miracles, and there are only five miracles which can usefully harness that ability. And given that a link between true divinity and lightning has been established, it makes sense that the Firstborn would be using that ring in conjunction with lightning-based miracles, no?
The combination of the divine effect and magic damage we get via divine weapons appears to be a focusing of divine energies through human understanding rather than direct interaction with divine beings -- like an imperfect but still effective imitation. For something to truly exit the realm of human power and enter the realm of godly strength, it must harness lightning. That said, there's a counterpoint in this through the Greatsword of Artorias, which deals magical damage rather than lightning damage as its secondary type. You might also note that the Greatsword of Artorias resembles an unmarred Black Knight sword, right down to having extremely similar heavy attack animations. Perhaps the footknights of Gwyn weren't provided with the power of lightning, or perhaps they couldn't harness it with small exception? After all, neither the Black Knights nor the Silver Knights use lightning, but the latter have divine spears. It's also worth noting that the Silver Knight straight sword used to have a divine effect, but that was patched out in order to allow the weapon to be buffed.
In short, this is how I consider the scenario:
- To harness lightning is a unique ability of the gods or divine beings closely related to them.
- Only the Giant Blacksmith in Anor Londo has the capacity to make lightning weapons (presumably, giants are divine beings?).
- Only the Warriors of Sunlight covenant grants mortals (or general undead) access to lightning-based miracles.
- The God of War left a lightning-based miracle at the tomb of Gwyn.
- The Ring of the Sun's Firstborn boosts the damage dealt by miracles.
- Of the five miracles that deal damage at the player's will, three of these are lightning-related.
- Given that the Firstborn was a god, it's not unsound to assume that he used this ring to empower his lightning attacks.
- With all this in mind, it appears likely that the God of War and the Firstborn are the same individual.
- Of the NPCs we meet in the game, Solaire appears to be the most eligable; he is the only character who is a member of the Warriors of Sunlight and is the only NPC who harnesses lightning. In addition, the Sunlight Blade miracle tells us that the God of War left Anor Londo, and Solaire mentions that he chose to become undead. Perhaps this was an act of atonement?
Buggy Virus wrote:But solaire has humanity, implying he is a descendant of the pyrgmy. Thus not Gwyn.
samster628 wrote:All humans (save primordial ones)
samster628 wrote:All humans (save primordial ones) are decended from the pigmy sort of because he invented humanity. Your charachter isn't the god of war as i said in another thread. You can choose your gender all undead can light bonfires (hence the rite of kindling). You are nothing special. also whether ether serpent tells a grain of truth is a mood point since there are no other sorces other than them. to make anything make sense i assume both serpents speak the truth. I think we have shkar Jr - has the ideas the the point thats 1 and the evidence thats another 1. But when he puts them together he gets 1+1=7! Don't get me wrong he's an interesting poster with some good ideas but he'll be the first to admit he is known for his crazy ideas and speculation.
samster628 wrote:
1 YES but only in the physical sense. They burn out which is why you keep needing humanity to relight them. humanity and great souls act like fire because they came from fire. You can light fires using ordianary fire and wood but it lacks the special effects
2 YES as can all humans using the humanity inside them.
3 PLAUSABLE possibly havel is like part giant but i think he was just an exeptionally strong person or prehaps he used miracles to assist him (reading grat magic barrie miricle shows he is also a bishop)
4 ... Its chaos it doesnt have to make sense. maybe the bed of chaos being born of fire makes it immune to fire?
5 though i seem to be agreeing with these new ideas that seem to be quite sane (are you feeling ok?) let me make 1 thing clear. THE FIRST FLAME IS NOT THE SUN
Thats all for now folks
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