Griefers are the good guys

Another thing you might wanna consider is that it might be just as hard as dark souls you have just got better at the game, i know i find certain bosses much easier than i used too.

Nessima017 wrote:Another thing you might wanna consider is that it might be just as hard as dark souls you have just got better at the game, i know i find certain bosses much easier than i used too.

Seeing as I finaly beat O&S, Artorias, Manus, and Kalameet on my own the other day, I completely agree.

Onion Knight wrote:Artificial difficulty is already thrown around as a criticism for the game, doing this would actually give them credible grounds for this criticism.
Even easier difficultly would be preferable to a completely unfair game which is out to screw the player over without actually teaching anything.
Also where is the actual proof of easy difficulty? 'More accessible' can mean a whole bunch of features other than difficulty.
This whole section is full of paranoia, wild speculation and devoid of information.

I know what you mean ive seen the same topic of conversation everywhere.

Onion Knight wrote:Artificial difficulty is already thrown around as a criticism for the game, doing this would actually give them credible grounds for this criticism.
Even easier difficultly would be preferable to a completely unfair game which is out to screw the player over without actually teaching anything.
Also where is the actual proof of easy difficulty? 'More accessible' can mean a whole bunch of features other than difficulty.
This whole section is full of paranoia, wild speculation and devoid of information.

Look back at my original post and count how many times I say "If", which implies that I don't know and never claimed to know that it will be easier for sure. Just bringing the possibility to mind. Although tbh, how much could "more accessible to players" mean besides making some aspect of the game easier?

Edit: this post is directed to you too sloth

Sloth9230 wrote:

Nessima017 wrote:Another thing you might wanna consider is that it might be just as hard as dark souls you have just got better at the game, i know i find certain bosses much easier than i used too.

That's a possibility I'm aware of too. If it's just as difficult as Dark/Demon Souls then I don't have to worry about a mission of any kind. I'll still be invading of course, but at least I won't have to worry about the well-being of Dark Souls. I'm just bringing the possiblity of an easier game to mind and putting forward a potential plan of action.

ahh all those times i got trolled by people with endgame gear in the undead church... nowadays i turn it into a little game for myself. I make sure i quick roll and try to stay alive as long as i can, hitting all the dirtiest backstabs i can.. ofcourse, i would never win, but the longer i survived the faster my heart started going and the more fun i had. Griefing is just part of the dark souls world and it's charm.

LOL I hate griefers but this idea is awesome. I really hope DkS 2 don't come with stupid glitches so that at least griefers can be considered fair. I like griefing by fair means, I am a Darkmoon that want to kill all the sinners no matter what. I don't care if you kill Petrus by accident, you will die in the name of the Darkmoon. So I'm all up for making the game harder as long as it's by fair means (no glitching, hard worked end game equipment, etc.).

LunarFog wrote:

Onion Knight wrote:Artificial difficulty is already thrown around as a criticism for the game, doing this would actually give them credible grounds for this criticism.
Even easier difficultly would be preferable to a completely unfair game which is out to screw the player over without actually teaching anything.
Also where is the actual proof of easy difficulty? 'More accessible' can mean a whole bunch of features other than difficulty.
This whole section is full of paranoia, wild speculation and devoid of information.

Look back at my original post and count how many times I say "If", which implies that I don't know and never claimed to know that it will be easier for sure. Just bringing the possibility to mind. Although tbh, how much could "more accessible to players" mean besides making some aspect of the game easier?

Edit: this post is directed to you too sloth

Sloth9230 wrote:

''They're going to be making the game easier.''

So you deny saying this? Ok then, backtrack all you want.

More accessible to players could mean several things.
-A standard narrative a player can follow without the vague item descriptions and 'clues.'
-A tutorial that actually teaches the players all the game features in detail.
-More linear early portion of the game, so new players don't wander off to more difficult areas, get slaughtered and rage quit.
-Improve summoning to include friend lists etc

'Accessibly' is such a vague term and isn't bound to difficulty as much as everyone bleets about.

Improving the learning curve without removing the difficulty is an ideal situation for both experienced players and newcomers.

Poliwrath wrote:ahh all those times i got trolled by people with endgame gear in the undead church... nowadays i turn it into a little game for myself. I make sure i quick roll and try to stay alive as long as i can, hitting all the dirtiest backstabs i can.. ofcourse, i would never win, but the longer i survived the faster my heart started going and the more fun i had. Griefing is just part of the dark souls world and it's charm.

You should join my covenant. I will share my knowledge with you. This weekend I found out that inflicting poison and/or toxic on the host and then just dodging him until he died is....ridiculously fun.

Onion Knight wrote:

LunarFog wrote:

Onion Knight wrote:Artificial difficulty is already thrown around as a criticism for the game, doing this would actually give them credible grounds for this criticism.
Even easier difficultly would be preferable to a completely unfair game which is out to screw the player over without actually teaching anything.
Also where is the actual proof of easy difficulty? 'More accessible' can mean a whole bunch of features other than difficulty.
This whole section is full of paranoia, wild speculation and devoid of information.

Look back at my original post and count how many times I say "If", which implies that I don't know and never claimed to know that it will be easier for sure. Just bringing the possibility to mind. Although tbh, how much could "more accessible to players" mean besides making some aspect of the game easier?

Edit: this post is directed to you too sloth

Sloth9230 wrote:

''They're going to be making the game easier.''

So you deny saying this? Ok then, backtrack all you want.

More accessible to players could mean several things.
-A standard narrative a player can follow without the vague item descriptions and 'clues.'
-A tutorial that actually teaches the players all the game features in detail.
-More linear early portion of the game, so new players don't wander off to more difficult areas, get slaughtered and rage quit.
-Improve summoning to include friend lists etc

'Accessibly' is such a vague term and isn't bound to difficulty as much as everyone bleets about.

Improving the learning curve without removing the difficulty is an ideal situation for both experienced players and newcomers.

Who said I denied saying that too. After the opening post it should be clear that this is all hypothetical. Or do you seriously expect me to say "if" "maybe" "possibly" in every one of my posts.

One of the key things about the dark souls is that danger of griefers. Playing online was fun when you could get randomly invaded by the biggest prick. And was even better when you beat them. And you can avoid it. Don't go human unless you really need it, because every boss and enemy can be beaten alone.

Attacking in full havel's with a +5 Lightning Claymore is kind of lowbrow, don't you think?

I know that at my first ability I'll be invading with the Fire-equivalent Claymore, standard sheild and +5 Elite Knight, though. It's not fair, but it won't be too awerful hard.

I guess, you could put some sort of restriction, not too much but something that allows safe passage from them.

Developers said they plan on limiting options early on, guess that's that.

Sloth9230 wrote:Developers said they plan on limiting options early on, guess that's that.

What is that exactly? An unspecific statement that could mean anything and doesn't actually answer any questions?

It could mean any number of things, but then there's also this statement

"we plan on making the early parts of the game comparatively less difficult to ease new players in, and then at a certain point, we’ll tell them “this is where the real game begins"

If the beginning of the game is gonna be easier than the rest of the game, then I assume that online features will also be disabled in the early parts of the game. That's the way it was done in Demon Soul's(Bolterian Palace 1-1), and that's the way that I believe it should be.

But you're right, it could mean lot's of things. I certainly don't know what the developers have in mind.

Edit: But one question. If the developers have already stated that their intention is to make the early parts of the game easier for beginners, why would you do something that is counterproductive towards the developers Goals? At that point you can't even say that it's in spirit of Dark Soul's because it no longer is. Even if their is a way for you to grief legitimately in the next game, it's still going against the developers wishes. Keep exploiting the system, and eventually the developers will do something about.

If you wish to challenge yourself by doing a low level run, then feel free to do so. But in doing so you have to realize that what it is your sacrificing: Co-op and PVP. That's something that you have decided to impose on yourself, and it doesn't give you the right to torture new players for your personal entertainment or whatever other reason you might have.

One thing I found with griefing us that it can never be 'good'

It brings on a few things. 1. Unjust and almost impossible to avoid deaths. 2. It can cause people to rely on summons or even give up the game. 3. It distorts the dynamic of the invasion community.

If the next game is easier, griefing isn't the answer. The difficulty in souls is made to be organic. Pretty much every death is just and deserved. With griefing it is not. One shorting a kid doesn't make them game harder, it's makes it impossible and takes the enjoyment out of it. This false difficulty won't result in players becoming more skilled, like regular challenges in souls do, but will cause players to turn to things like summoning to cope with it or stop playing altogether.

Griefing is a wholly negative action to do, there's no possible situation in which it's really deserved or right. It only detracts from the souls experience, and adds nothing.

The game encourages ganking, but no game encourages griefing.

Ummm. . . no?

Serious_Much: Exactly!

The existence of griefers creates a necessity for anti-griefers, which in turn creates a need for more griefers. All so that new players can't blow through the game with their OP phantoms.

Everybody just likes to say that they should stay hollow to avoid invasions altogether, but why should they? New Player's have just as much a right to play PVP as the more experienced players, and they have the right to do that without having to risk going up against someone with OP gear. The game encourages that, it's why theirs only 4 cracked red eye stone until you get to new lando. A person new to the game who want's to try out the invasion mechanic shouldn't have to face of against an anti-griefer, they would gain nothing from that except for the loss of a humanity and cracked RES. Griefing and anti-griefing is just bad for the community as a whole.