If DWGR were two rings.

How's this for a nerf? Two rings, one giving you the quicker movement and the other the flip. Just an idea. Note that I haven't really thought this through.

I kinda like that. If the flip was only under 25% and move speed for under 50% I find that useful, but I also think the point, I forget who said it, that taking it away will make people switch to hornets.

Honestly I'm starting to feel that unless it's in a fightclub any invasion should be taken as pure hostile and just crush them.

Or it would just require two ring slots.

slow movement with a ninja flip? find a fat person that will hit a fast backflip like the ring and i will support you

Why does everyone hate the DWGR it's accessible for everyone and help a lot with 3v1 spawn camper situations, now a days it seem that anyone who cant deal with a weapon, spell, or items want them to be nerfed, guys seriously learn to play and avoid those things.

Honestly I just think it is stupid looking, lol.

Ninja flipping havels are the most pathetic thing in the game.

Only reason I wear the ring is for the equip weight bonus.

Ninja Flipping is just a novelty to me (and many other people, I'm sure).

I remember the first time I was going to get the ring, I just wanted to do a couple flips then I was going to put it away. I thought "How silly to have a ring just to change your roll animation!" But then I realized I would double my gear weight and still be fast (this was in october, when nothing was common knowledge yet and the wiki had about 2% of the information it has now!), so I've used it a lot since. Not on all my builds, some are still legit under 25% weight, and others are 50% weight med-rollers, but if it was just for the flips I wouldn't use it at all.

So make it two rings.

- 50% equip weight fast movement and roll ring
- Ninja Flip ring

Pretty sure you'd see almost no flippers anymore, and instead a lot of people doing fast rolls in Havel's!

BLA1NE wrote:Only reason I wear the ring is for the equip weight bonus.

Ninja Flipping is just a novelty to me (and many other people, I'm sure).

I remember the first time I was going to get the ring, I just wanted to do a couple flips then I was going to put it away. I thought "How silly to have a ring just to change your roll animation!" But then I realized I would double my gear weight and still be fast (this was in october, when nothing was common knowledge yet and the wiki had about 2% of the information it has now!), so I've used it a lot since. Not on all my builds, some are still legit under 25% weight, and others are 50% weight med-rollers, but if it was just for the flips I wouldn't use it at all.

So make it two rings.

- 50% equip weight fast movement and roll ring
- Ninja Flip ring

Pretty sure you'd see almost no flippers anymore, and instead a lot of people doing fast rolls in Havel's!

Or instead of ruining the DWGR for every one, how about they increase the weight of all the heavy armour.

That would break the game.

What you're asking is essentially to make it mathematically impossible for people wearing heavy armor to be under 50% equip weight. You realize these people are already using up both ring slots for that, and a lot of stat points invested in End? Because of those people who go to extreme lengths to be able to flip in heavy armor, you suggest penalizing everyone who wears them?

Not to mention that would also have heavy consequences on lighter builds who use parts of the heavy sets. The majority of my light builds use either Havel's legs or gloves (some both) to get some poise. I sacrifice defense by using up all my allocated armor weight on those 2 pieces. You suggest they increase its weight further, making it impossible for my dex builds to have any poise at all?

Increasing the weight would not only penalize heavy armor users. It would also greatly penalize light builds by making it virtually impossible to have any poise at all.

Splitting it into two rings will also penalize a lot of people for example faith and magic builds which need speed, the flip and the magic buffing ring to be effective.

That's what OP is suggesting. That the ring, as it is, needs to be penalized.

I don't agree or disagree that DWGR needs to be changed. I was pointing out the possibility that, if his suggestion of splitting its effects were to happen, you'd see a lot of people still using it for its equip weight benefits and practically none for the ninja flips.

Of course it would penalize some people. That's the point of the thread.

i wouldn't say that a lot of people use it for the equip burden increase, more like they would take advantage of the invincibility it provides during the flip which help dodge wotg spammers.

Personally I don't understand why everyone hates this ring either, if anything watching a backflipping full catarina or smough armour really cracks me up, i think its hilarious. And the flipping in no way makes these people invincible, I have killed plenty of havel flippers.

I have to agree with astorais, they have nerfed so many things to uselessness in the last patch, I didnt use fog rings or twop or anything like that pre-patch but they became pretty much non-existant. I never had any difficulty dealing with fog ringers or twop'ers for that matter, especially when I had iron skin working in a reasonable manner. All I hear is remove this remove that, people need to learn to adapt more often than not there is a counter to every overused item in the game.

I mean that when you flip you are invincible

Sorry astorais, I wasnt bashing what you said about that, I know the flipping gives you a moment longer for invincibility, but I dont think it affects game play too much, I meant more that the people using it are not indestructable over all.

Meh, I use the ring so I can run as fast (if not faster) as a host that's trying to run to chug estus.

I don't hate the ring. I friggin use it. But that's just because everyone else does, and if you don't you're in a very bad position. I tried not using it for a day. 25% weight with bellowing dragon crest ring and hornet ring, having gankers in mind. The lack of poise switched me back before the day was even over.

Anyway, like I said, just an idea.

Yukon wrote:Personally I don't understand why everyone hates this ring either, if anything watching a backflipping full catarina or smough armour really cracks me up, i think its hilarious. And the flipping in no way makes these people invincible, I have killed plenty of havel flippers.

I have to agree with astorais, they have nerfed so many things to uselessness in the last patch, I didnt use fog rings or twop or anything like that pre-patch but they became pretty much non-existant. I never had any difficulty dealing with fog ringers or twop'ers for that matter, especially when I had iron skin working in a reasonable manner. All I hear is remove this remove that, people need to learn to adapt more often than not there is a counter to every overused item in the game.

^ This summed up anything I would've said. lol

BLA1NE wrote:Only reason I wear the ring is for the equip weight bonus.

Ninja Flipping is just a novelty to me (and many other people, I'm sure).

I remember the first time I was going to get the ring, I just wanted to do a couple flips then I was going to put it away. I thought "How silly to have a ring just to change your roll animation!" But then I realized I would double my gear weight and still be fast (this was in october, when nothing was common knowledge yet and the wiki had about 2% of the information it has now!), so I've used it a lot since. Not on all my builds, some are still legit under 25% weight, and others are 50% weight med-rollers, but if it was just for the flips I wouldn't use it at all.

So make it two rings.

- 50% equip weight fast movement and roll ring
- Ninja Flip ring

Pretty sure you'd see almost no flippers anymore, and instead a lot of people doing fast rolls in Havel's!

this sums it up pretty much.
I dont like the flipping, id rather see me doing rolls, but i use it to have a double weight limit before my movement becomes slow, becouse if youre doing 50% or fatty rolls, youre screwed and your also screwed without poise, becouse you need poise to not die for getting hit once.
So you need heavy armor for poise and heavy armor is... very heavy, but with the ring you can buff the pathetic 25% of the equip load youre allowed to utilize to 50%
- now you can equip one heavy armor piece and have some poise.

Besides, unless my memory's turned to mush, Demon's Souls only required you to be at 50% weight to get fast movement speed. So now we have to waste a ring slot to be equivalent--it's only fair that it would allow us to do flips on top.

I don't have a problem w/ this ring, I too only use it for the equip bonus. It allows my mage to at least have a 'little' poise. I've never thought that anything other than that is overly advantageous. It doesn't need a nerf.

Whknight wrote:Honestly I'm starting to feel that unless it's in a fightclub any invasion should be taken as pure hostile and just crush them.

I have a friend who loves this game, but has zero interest in anything like the structured, duel-style PvP. Whenever we play, he regards any invader as a griefer (even if they're not) who just needs to be dealt with any way possible. He plays as a cleric and saves WoG just for these invasions. Three shots to the face...no attempt to fight. He hates the invaders, but accepts them as part of the game. Just doesn't feel there's any reason for him to do anything but get rid of them fast, with whatever resources the game gives him.

How about not letting it stack with Havel's/RoFP? Use the base stat to determine the 50% threshold. That way mid- and lightweight ninjas could still get the benefit, and maybe heavy armor guys could just get the flip. I'm sure few heavies would use it, but there are already plenty of rings I'd never consider using.

I just want there to be more variety to the game. All I see are people flipping around. There are many rings that just aren't used, and sure some of them are pretty useless, but variety is nice.

There isnt really anyway to get around the over used items in this game, if you nerf one thing they will find the next best thing and suddenly everyone will all be using hornets ring, or some other ring. Nerfing it isnt going to add diversity it's just going to cause a shift in common equipment to the next best thing.