I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

I guess it all comes down to this. You don't want to min max. You want to have everything. Therefore, higher SL is better for you.

yeah and if you backstab someone with that smoughs hammer and a couple choice pieces of equipment you'll kill them instantly.

thats the heaviest weapon in the game btw.

reim0027 wrote:http://mmdks.com/zma

That chaos blade build is very very versatile. You would not want to come across rif with that build. So many different things you can do with that build.

It add versatility but not power imo. It's just an SL 100 build with spells. Not that spells aren't powerful lol, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

reim0027 wrote:I guess it all comes down to this. You don't want to min max. You want to have everything. Therefore, higher SL is better for you.

I love min/maxing, it's what I'm good at, making good builds. I'm totally against anything higher than SL 150. What I don't like is the preference of the low SL cap for certain weapons, especially those which scale with one stat and have low weight. I've never bother with a C/C weapon at 40/40, to me it's a waste of stats when I can have same power with a single stat (Str or Dex), and everything else to HP/End. At higher SL C/C weapons can have the same place (buff, more HP, etc.) as a pure stat, whereas the pure stat will only get a slight increase in power due to diminishing returns.

Man it seems you want to be able to fast roll with anything. Smough Hammer is the heaviest weapon in the game, if you want to fast roll with that, it will obviously leave way weaker and you will have to sacrifice stats, or armor (poise).

It seems to me that the SL 150 cap was brought up only so Wyrm can make an armored, fast rolling Str build, while making next to no sacrifices to reach this.

I voted no.

To me, a Str build should be a powerful, but slow tank. Seeing guys fast roll, or ninja flip with weapons bigger than themselves is ridiculous.

On lower SL, if a Str build wants to fast roll it has to make sacrifices, or fight naked. Same thing really.

It's the heaviest weapon, however it doesn't give me an advantage over other Str weapons. Like I said earlier, a Great Club has more AR than this thing at very lower weight. Basically I'm sacrificing stats for a badass looking hammer. It doesn't have any advantages lol.

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:

DoughGuy wrote:I see your build and raise you this - http://mmdks.com/zbs
But seriously, I dont see why you need to be OP in every aspect Wyrm. You should be making sacrifices with builds.

What's the Havel's Ring for? You're fat rolling anyway.

I chucked the rings on before I put any points into end. I didn't bother to check if I needed them afterwards.

WyrmHero wrote:It's the heaviest weapon, however it doesn't give me an advantage over other Str weapons. Like I said earlier, a Great Club has more AR than this thing at very lower weight. Basically I'm sacrificing stats for a badass looking hammer. It doesn't have any advantages lol.

Ain't so badass when you're fat rolling

The Great Club doesn't block your view of your movements while you're trying to duel either

Sentiel wrote:It seems to me that the SL 150 cap was brought up only so Wyrm can make an armored, fast rolling Str build, while making next to no sacrifices to reach this.

I voted no.

To me, a Str build should be a powerful, but slow tank. Seeing guys fast roll, or ninja flip with weapons bigger than themselves is ridiculous.

On lower SL, if a Str build wants to fast roll it has to make sacrifices, or fight naked. Same thing really.

Did you know that the most useful attack of the great hammer is the 2H roll R1? The thing can't be parried, but it needs fast roll to get away quickly. Try that fat or medium rolling, vs a spear for example. It's laughable. Great Hammers/Greataxes aren't good with mid/fat roll, they can't even stunlock. The DGM is the tank weapon, because it can stunlock. It also has a good roll R1, so it's the most versatile one.

@Sloth and Plastic Nothing badasser than smashing sinner's skulls with the big hammer.

In all fairness I've never really tried to use it with a truly competitive build. The one PvP build I was using it with was my Smough cosplay, which I only really used to team up in the forest with my buddy's Orny cosplay. Neither of us were using shields, and I was fat rolling, so my survivability wasn't spectacularly high.

prepatch the smoughs hammer was incredibly stupid to fight in the burg from what i remember.

just people rolling around r1'ing over and over again.. it's worse than fighting a kat user that roll r1 spams.

you just have to make sacrifices for that now thankfully.

Rifter7 wrote:prepatch the smoughs hammer was incredibly stupid to fight in the burg from what i remember.

just people rolling around r1'ing over and over again.. it's worse than fighting a kat user that roll r1 spams.

you just have to make sacrifices for that now thankfully.

The moveset isn't very versatile actually. It's either that or that lol. The R1 swing is too slow, it has some phantom reach, but I don't trust it. Doesn't stunlock either. But damn I love landing that ground smash, especially when people don't expect it.

PlasticandRage wrote:The Great Club doesn't block your view of your movements while you're trying to duel either

hahaha exaclty! Smoughs is an awesome weapon and it has great moves, at least I think so, I can never actually see whats going on

Carphil wrote:

PlasticandRage wrote:The Great Club doesn't block your view of your movements while you're trying to duel either

hahaha exaclty! Smoughs is an awesome weapon and it has great moves, at least I think so, I can never actually see whats going on

It doesn't have anything special. The R2s are way too slow for PvP. The only thing that's awesome are its looks lol.

Now, now, Wyrm, let us bury Smough's hammer with the other useless, but cool looking, things. It can keep the knight shield company.

smoughs hammer isnt useless.. the roll r1 is ridiculous, and its backstabs are the equivalent to a semi hitting you.

but its the heaviest weapon in the game.

I'm getting tired of the raggedy clothes to match the wooden/rusty Str weapon. The shiny big hammer is a treasure.

Perhaps I should have said "completely outclassed"?

the only thing its got going for it is the biggest aoe pound, that's pretty much it. i vote no since at higher levels dex will have EVERYTHING and more, at sl 100 dex make NO sacrifices, after sl 100 they really get everything, much more ar, armor which puts str builds at an even greater disadvantage. the only thing i wish is hyper armor but i know that will not happen(dont even mention the ogs, that thing is garbage) but they could've at least brought up the scaling of str up, like anything that took 40 or more str to 1h gets an S and the rest an A, that way at least str builds become more competitive.

what if the amount of strength a character had slightly reduced the weapons weight, starting to show real effect near 40 strength?

I actually compared the length of the great hammers and the Dragon Tooth is the longest followed by the Great Club. The Grant and Smough's Hammer have same range. Don't remember the Large Club though. So SM is small but fat, so it should have a bigger ground smash AoE like rant says.

Rifter7 wrote:what if the amount of strength a character had slightly reduced the weapons weight, starting to show real effect near 40 strength?

That would put them on par with Dex builds, more equipload more poise. So yeah good idea.