CALLING ALL PRO BACKSTABBERS

Sorry I should have clarified its useless to me lol, I look at the new post dlc pvp this way....

Poise is now almost useless to a certain degree now that everyone and there dog isn't stunlocking. That being said if you like to parry like me and your getting hit back everytime its hard to get close for a follow up parry, since the best method is often to tank a hit and then parry. So most of my builds use FAP and wolf stll.

The DWGR will always have its use for the added I frames no doubt, which will always make it viable. For pyro and casting builds its a must for sure.

I like a mix of pyro and attacks myself, I'm actually a halbert guy but like pretty much every weapons and always switch it up.

One of my fav combos is the "Hellbird" which is nailing a guy with a chaos fireball(with crown/bellowing) then coming flying in with a 2 handed running halbert r1 and follow up attack if needed. There are stuck in the AOE and don't even see ya coming and they are staggered from the pyro so you get counter dmg lol ouch!

DarkW17 wrote:Ya for sure very true Glute, I wear atleast 1 piece of kirks on every build I have lol;) But even with kirks ya gotta have a weapon with a quick recovery time, if you commit with a halbert or something your beat lol!

well yea if your weapon is slow you are fuked any ways and they dont even need to roll BS you, they can just circle you.

i use almost strictly Chaos blade so it works for me

Ghadis_God wrote:can't defend against roll bs other than using a spear or not attacking.

Just about sums up why DeS PvP > DkS PvP.

I can never tell if you mean it anymore, I like em both. My leather mitt anis was made long ago, they'll fix it.

DarkW17 wrote:Lol I'm no pro man but with a dwgr I can roll bs you like a boss, there really is no defense against a well timed DWGR roll BS to be honest tho

Anyways I'm on ps3 hosting in the Burg pretty much every night again at sl 125, I took a little break just getting back on and could use the BS practice anyways

Its Glatts17 or more likely Glatts_17 you should run into me surprized you havnt yet lol!

your the type of person i made this post for lmao
im surprised we haven't fought yet either i keep my sl 119 in the burg at all times and invade
I'm getting on now I'm eager to run into you, though i shall say it now my pure sword style is NOT my main
although i must ask you i never understood is backstabbing people constantly even entertaining to you? i only do it when the opportunity presents itself i don't see how a backstab build can make on feel great :| but none the less
i shall put this "unstoppable BS to the test"

Animaaal wrote:I can never tell if you mean it anymore, I like em both. My leather mitt anis was made long ago, they'll fix it.

I usually mean what I say. A major flaw of Dark Souls's PvP is that it is too easy to react to many attacks.

Saturday-Saint wrote:I usually mean what I say. A major flaw of Dark Souls's PvP is that it is too easy to react to many attacks.

I can understand that. But I'm also relating it to say the DBS and how the lack of poise creates a certain risk in comparison.

That is if by reaction, you are saying the ability to produce a result from the reflex/reaction.

I just think you can combine patience with other weapons and/or tactics outside of spears to create space and deterrence is all.

I'm not sure if I know what you mean by react.

By 'react' I meant 'react.' Some guy does something, you see it happening, and have time to decide what to do about it.

Also, Poise is bad for heavy weapons. Long-story-short, poise makes it easy to trade attacks, so in order to balance out high-damage weapons, they have to be made extremely slow.

Saturday-Saint wrote:...By 'react' I meant 'react.' Some guy does something, you see it happening, and have time to decide what to do about it...

Well I figured that much dude, but I could also watch someone do something while I sit back and scratch my do something… DBS or no DBS. Its funking vague bud, no offense.

Saturday-Saint wrote:...Also, Poise is bad for heavy weapons. Long-story-short, poise makes it easy to trade attacks, so in order to balance out high-damage weapons, they have to be made extremely slow...

I can see how needing poise is a "hinderance" to larger weapons.
But I cant see how its bad...another vague term.

Also, if by trade attacks you also mean "risk losing the dps race" then yes I agree.

Using 6 or 7 seven words to answer a question that would most likely be better described through sentences is hard for me to understand, my apologies but you speak in shorthand sometimes.

I'm not sure where your confusion with my use of 'react' is coming from, to be honest.

Animaaal wrote:Using 6 or 7 seven words to answer a question that would most likely be
better described through sentences is hard for me to understand, my
apologies but you speak in shorthand sometimes.

Right. To give a fair explanation on why poise is bad for heavy weapons, I'd need to start off by explaining how hit-stun affects how a game is played so that I can explain what you lose when you add in poise. I would do this, but it'll take at least an hour if I want to do the topic justice, maybe more. I'd like to go to bed by 10, which is in a few minutes. I'll do it later, maybe.

The gist of it is that hit-stun rewards you for landing the first attack. In Dark Souls, if both people swing their weapon around the same time, then it doesn't matter who swung first, both players are going to get hit, assuming the weapons are of similar speed. When both players get hit, the weapon that does more damage wins, in this case the heavier weapon. To balance this out, the very heavy weapons have to be made extremely slow compared to the fast weapons. Specifically, a light weapon has to be able to attack and recover before the slower weapon has finished its start-up.

In a game with hitstun, the light weapon doesn't have to worry about recovery. It just has to go through its own start-up before the heavy weapon finishes its start-up. Because of that, heavy and light weapons can be closer in speed while still being balanced.

If you don't know what I mean by start-up and recovery, watch this from about 30 seconds to 1:10. It's about fighting games, but it's applicable to Dark Souls as well. In fact, you should watch the whole thing if you've got a couple minutes. It's informative.

Your the type of person i made this post for lmao
im surprised we haven't fought yet either i keep my sl 119 in the burg at all times and invade
I'm getting on now I'm eager to run into you, though i shall say it now my pure sword style is NOT my main
although i must ask you i never understood is backstabbing people constantly even entertaining to you? i only do it when the opportunity presents itself i don't see how a backstab build can make on feel great but none the less
i shall put this "unstoppable BS to the test"

Man I started my pvp experience the day Dark souls dropped I waited along time for it come out. I had already invested 100's of hours into demons souls so I couldn't wait. I 1st went were a lot of people started back then the dirty kiln. I rocked full dark armour and buffed my dark sword with CMW and wrecked anyone I could by any means possible.

The kiln was full of gankers so naturally I started rocking a rapier and doing my best to bs them all to death. Next stop was the forest were I furthered my BS skills.

So now well over a year later I try my best to NEVER BS anyone but a ganker. In 90% of my fights I don't land a BS nor do I try, or feel I have 2 to win. I am just willing to help ya out in anyway if you feel BS's are a problem fo ya:)

DarkW17 wrote:Your the type of person i made this post for lmao
im surprised we haven't fought yet either i keep my sl 119 in the burg at all times and invade
I'm getting on now I'm eager to run into you, though i shall say it now my pure sword style is NOT my main
although i must ask you i never understood is backstabbing people constantly even entertaining to you? i only do it when the opportunity presents itself i don't see how a backstab build can make on feel great but none the less
i shall put this "unstoppable BS to the test"

Man I started my pvp experience the day Dark souls dropped I waited along time for it come out. I had already invested 100's of hours into demons souls so I couldn't wait. I 1st went were a lot of people started back then the dirty kiln. I rocked full dark armour and buffed my dark sword with CMW and wrecked anyone I could by any means possible.

The kiln was full of gankers so naturally I started rocking a rapier and doing my best to bs them all to death. Next stop was the forest were I furthered my BS skills.

\\ i see what you mean i usually don't invade where i expect gankers I'm not the type to set myself up to fail

I've been backstabbed while bowing in the kiln as a host with no phantoms, that place disgusts me i don't even like it there to small of an arena for my style
so sadly i never adopted BS skills although i used the forest to better my 2 v1 skills as well, successfuly using the environments giant mushrooms and trees as minor help //


if you use the red eye stone on the shroom side of the bridge you will be summoned on the bridge to Sif so naturally that became my fav spot to invade as a BP plus you get to kill unsuspecting forest hunters who used TWoP and WoG at the time
oh the joy

Oh ya lol I actually just brought a toon back to the kiln recently, does seem like much has changed there!

Sometimes its fun to get a break from dueling to go kill some forest gankers. The best is to be a forest hunter so you get a free pass past the NPC's, then invade through cracked red from past Alvins house. Most hosts don't expect it and are so busy spawn ganking you can you catch them off gaurd!

Hopefully ill catch up with ya in the burg, you can add Glatts_17 tho also

I'm the Master Backstabber (read my sign if you have any doubts)! I would gladly backstab you to death... and without chain-backstabs! But... I haven't fixed my online issues...

Saturday-Saint wrote:I'm not sure where your confusion with my use of 'react' is coming from, to be honest.
***LOGIC, LOGIC, and more yummy LOGIC***see post#35
If you don't know what I mean by start-up and recovery, watch this from about 30 seconds to 1:10. It's about fighting games, but it's applicable to Dark Souls as well. In fact, you should watch the whole thing if you've got a couple minutes. It's informative.

Thank you. I did watch the whole thing. I enjoyed it.

I wasnt confused by the word react per say, but more so by what actions constitute a reaction. ie rolling away, buffing, parrying, etc.

Your explanation along with the video helps to clarify your applied definition, thank you.

And yes, I'd agree that other weapons benefiting from an attribute designed (at least it would seem) for heavier weapons is bad for said weapons when considering their weight and comparative damage output from a dps standpoint. I apologize if my statement didnt reflect that.

I'm still undecided about your statement regarding spears however. When considering this concept, the falchion comes to mind. I understand spears have superior reach in comparison, but if anything the falchion is at least competitive. Along with combustion spells and a few other tactics. I'm not saying they are as efficient as spear weapons in this regard, only that other weapons and tactics do maintain a certain amount of effectiveness imo.

I always learn something when you take the time to elaborate. I'd appreciate it if you would expand a little on this concept if you have time. Thanks again.

I don't think I said anything about spears, I was just quoting some other guy.

Silver Knight Spear is best spear.