PvP SL, Should it be lowered?

sl 150 FTW
i see some saying that its not much pvp at 120+
i get the same amount of pvp on my sl 150 that i do with my sl 60 and 99
i like 150 cuz it gives more options in armor/weapon combinations

I chose the 120 option but really I think pvp at any level is freaking awesome. I get that it helps to have an agreed upon SL but why not have multiple PvP level ranges. The more violence the better right guys and gals?

i dont like higher SL pvp because you have too many options and not enough sacrafice. you shouldnt be able to just swap around weapons and armor on the fly. if you wanna wear heavy armor with that fast roll you should either have to put more points into END and less into somewhere else. or you can make the sacrafice, less points in END and put a few points into VIT or STR or whatever your into. when you have people who learn to maxamize thier potential after making sacrafices you find people who are good at playing, and dont just spam uchi with thier 12000 stamina/DMB/ med rolling in full havels, sending crystal soul arrows and then BS with dark silver tracer.

the only vice to low level pvp that i see is elemental weapons. im not saying i dont use them, but when you put out that much damage with that low of a SL it does cheapen pvp.

i was watching one of Vegeta311's videos and he was commenting on something someone had said. im not directly quoting but he was asked something along the lines of "why dont you do NG+7 videos?". his response was something along the lines of "why should i play the game 7 times to make it more difficult when i can just tweak my first playthrough to achieve the same results."

if you didnt use elemental weapons w/ low level pvp the damge you would do to HP ratio would be similar as high SL pvp with maxed out gear. thus you could have competetive pvp that wasnt a 1shot fest and you could have your characters made much quicker.

maybe someone could try a low SL lvl fightclub with weapon/armor enhancement restrictions.

p.s. sorry for rambling but ive got nothing going on @ work today and ive had like 2 pots of coffee already.....

Jodecho wrote:i dont like higher SL pvp because you have too many options and not enough sacrafice. you shouldnt be able to just swap around weapons and armor on the fly. if you wanna wear heavy armor with that fast roll you should either have to put more points into END and less into somewhere else. or you can make the sacrafice, less points in END and put a few points into VIT or STR or whatever your into. when you have people who learn to maxamize thier potential after making sacrafices you find people who are good at playing, and dont just spam uchi with thier 12000 stamina/DMB/ med rolling in full havels, sending crystal soul arrows and then BS with dark silver tracer.

the only vice to low level pvp that i see is elemental weapons. im not saying i dont use them, but when you put out that much damage with that low of a SL it does cheapen pvp.

i was watching one of Vegeta311's videos and he was commenting on something someone had said. im not directly quoting but he was asked something along the lines of "why dont you do NG+7 videos?". his response was something along the lines of "why should i play the game 7 times to make it more difficult when i can just tweak my first playthrough to achieve the same results."

if you didnt use elemental weapons w/ low level pvp the damge you would do to HP ratio would be similar as high SL pvp with maxed out gear. thus you could have competetive pvp that wasnt a 1shot fest and you could have your characters made much quicker.

maybe someone could try a low SL lvl fightclub with weapon/armor enhancement restrictions.

p.s. sorry for rambling but ive got nothing going on @ work today and ive had like 2 pots of coffee already.....

You gotta remember that the more you lower the cap the more number of Dex builds you will see. Also by increasing the cap, you lower the significant advantages several builds have against others. For example: Elementals rule SL 50, pure Dex SL 100, buff hybrid builds SL 120. Check out the second post of this thread. I have proof that SL 150 has an almost perfect balance between builds.

No longer is the Chaos Blade significantly stronger than a Smough's Hammer. An elemental build can have its 99 Vit and fast roll with heavy armor, while a quality build (28/40) can have it's own buff. Pyro/Int/Faith casters emerge, no longer restricted by low SLs. Str weapons movesets get used as they should with fast roll and a bit of poise (great hammer's roll R1).

Watch out I used the word SIGNIFICANT. This means a Chaos Blade build can't get significantly stronger above SL 100 because it already has everything it needs with capped diminishing returns (50 Vit, 40 End, 45 Dex). Meanwhile using a Smough's Hammer at SL 100 is crippling, while at SL 150 it can have the same benefits as the Chaos Blade at SL 100. High SL is the way to go for build variety.

I like 120 but I hate it when people take their builds over because they can't min/max. "oh, I'll just take it to 130, no-one should notice..."

wyrmhero makes good points, my only problem is when you said " Pyro/Int/Faith casters emerge" and " Str weapons movesets get used as they should with fast roll and a bit of poise "

this is the point im making. I (me, my opinion based on my observations and personal idealism) dont think you should be able to fast roll with a weapon as big as you are. if your going to be using heavy poise producing armor (i know not all of it is heavy) a med roll, at best, shouls be what your stuck with.

if you wanna roll fast use lighter armor/weapons. i know, i know, its just using tools that are available to you, and anyone can do it if they want, i just think you shouldnt be able to. part of the advantage of taking more damage is it being a little easier to dodge said damage. if you can sit there and take hits to the face and swing a tree at someone while your at it then you shouldnt be able to fast roll too.

i hope this is addressed in DkS 2, but again this is all just personal views and preference.

Many people say I should mid roll with my big hammer. Let me say again: the big hammers need fast roll. They have slow R1s that can't even stunlock, useless R2s and their most useful attacks, the rolling attacks, need the fast roll to be successful. I have seen that attack in a mid roll, and it's so slow and predictable it's not even funny. Same is happening with greataxes, even more now that FROM nerfed their stunlock.

I do understand the ignorance on Str weapons because who use them? A small number of cool players that hate the overpopulation of Dex builds because of low SL caps lol. UGS can be used with mid and fast roll alike because they can stunlock while tanking hits, while also having very good roll attacks and swing-dodge luring. It's like a using a katana while mid roll, will you even try it? Some weapons are good for mid roll, others just don't.

if thats how you like to play then have at it, i just dont think it should work that way. the only thing that irritates me more than someone fast rolling with a DGM is when someone is rocking full havels or giants and spamming gold tracer or shotel nonstop.

oh well to each his own. different strokes for different folks.

the more i look over this the more i see it becoming an arguement instead of a discussion, so im done. atleast on this thread :/

Jodecho wrote:if thats how you like to play then have at it, i just dont think it should work that way. the only thing that irritates me more than someone fast rolling with a DGM is when someone is rocking full havels or giants and spamming gold tracer or shotel nonstop.

oh well to each his own. different strokes for different folks.

the more i look over this the more i see it becoming an arguement instead of a discussion, so im done. atleast on this thread :/

Just try it maybe it will change your opinion, mid roll with a Smough's Hammer. Do it in serious PvP. I'm not trying to fight with you I'm trying to convince you by telling my experience as a dedicated Str weapons user. You know you're biased towards Dex weapons and "fast and light" because it works perfectly. "Slow and fat" does not for us Str builds competitively, honestly.

i have a str build, 50/20, i use a mix of either light and giant armor or full elite knight (dont look at me like that) but either way im mid rolling. i play it on occasion though im not gonna pretend its my favorite because well it isnt. i also have a fatroll character where i RP Havel, but he gets less use than the previous toon.

yes i favor dex weapons (but not katanas) and fast roll because thats how i play, but i can honestly say when i use any STR build i have the fastest im getting around is with a mid roll.

on an off note i ran into a hacker the other day fast rolling in full smough rocking TWO smough hammers and infinate hp. needless to say even if he didnt have infinate hp he probably wouls have still destroyed me. str weps do work better with a fast roll, everything does, but i still hold that if your using a heavy weapon or heavy armor you shouldnt be able to fast roll.

another kinda off note, this conversation no long has anything to do with the thread and i appologize to anyone reading that is interrested in OP's subject.

It does has to do with lowering the SL cap so don't worry. Thanks for giving me that example.

Every level that we lower the PvP standard makes lightning and fire/chaos weapons a bit more viable. It isn't that far below 120 that scaling weapons would just disappear in the meta.

Poliwrath wrote:In my opinion lvl 100 is the way to go and stay. personally i think that by lvl 120 builds start to become the same. There are so many spellsword builds out there that don't have to sacrifice anything because 120 is high enough to virtually make 2 builds in one. I feel that around lvl 100 people start to be more like individuals. To make a good caster/ spellsword at lvl 100 takes alot of sacrifice into other stats and that makes it a more risky play for more power. Didn't mean to offened anyone just my own thoughts cheers

EXACTLY! I think SL100 is perfect for this reason.

I like the 100-120 range. It takes more time to build but I enjoy PvE a lot too. And on most of my 55 builds I end up spending just as much time on gathering the equipment I need.

SL 120 is low level pvp. Remember that there are a little over 700 of them in the game.

You can't call anything below 100 player vs player. At best, it's two glass cannon builds one shotting one another. Typically, it's a griefer running a low SL build to slaughter newbies. At worst, it's two people flailing around in equipment they can't fully utilize until one of them trips and falls on their own sword.

Hmmmm...wellll what do we really lose at sl 140-150?!?!

Diversity huh? Not to sure about that.

For starters biggger weapon builds would open up and automatically offer more options. They would finally get the advantage they deperately need.

What would a dexterity build really gain?...I mean really??? Health? Endurance to tank hits? Resistance? lol
(i'd love to see that btw ).

Okay, so your Int/Dex build finally can just go quality at 140-150...so what? So can everyone else. So maybe it gets some faith options....or maybe 150 health points? They can use better shields...better armor...the list goes on. I just dont think it matters. There are 4 weapon slots. Thats what you have to play to. It's what every build is optimized around. Everything else is secondary, tertiary, etc.

Point is so what? People always talk about how their lvl 50 beat a 700. What difference does it really make?

I for one think damage needs scaled in pvp still, or we get better armor stats, or health points, or something. I'm tired of a ninja flipping whatever DPS 3 strikes you're out build. And no, that build is not restrictive to a certain soul level.

I like a 5 min fight with a good non-dps fighter, than 5 "intense" fights with whoever.

ON TOPIC: No, I do not think it should be lowered.

WyrmHero wrote:... using a Smough's Hammer at SL 100 is crippling, while at SL 150 it can have the same benefits as the Chaos Blade at SL 100 ... the big hammers need fast roll.

http://mmdks.com/1e3b It's not a hammer, but it's big.

http://mmdks.com/1e3a Smough's Hammer with fast roll.

http://mmdks.com/1e3f Smough's Hammer with more poise.

ill stick to SL 120, the only thing that annoys are the buffers ... but im o.k. with that.

And sl 80. Pyro or Faith with elemental weapons? no thanks!
str builds wouldnt be viable, even dex builds would be hard to make. Even Int builds are dead.