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billy_bayonet
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    possibly new chain BS trend..

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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 2:11 am

    i only just started encountering this tactic the past few days.. and so far i cant find any way to escape it.

    after i get BSed the guy kicks me as i get up and i stumble and then he gets another BS. i just cant roll away, can't roll into them, cant stand still... just get kick/stumbled and he runs behind me
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    Post by KrazykevS10 Tue May 14, 2013 2:17 am

    This sounds like bad advice but it does work with lag.Mash the hell out of the roll button just to make sure you roll behind them as soon as possible.Chaining is very hard to do as when you try to land the second one,the other person can be rolling behind you already.
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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 2:21 am

    As with all problems, there is a solution.
    Try blocking, or attack with your weapon to cause a cancel BS.
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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 2:22 am

    KrazykevS10 wrote:This sounds like bad advice but it does work with lag.Mash the hell out of the roll button just to make sure you roll behind them as soon as possible.Chaining is very hard to do as when you try to land the second one,the other person can be rolling behind you already.

    ive tried that, there were instances when i would get the roll off and at the end of the roll stumble as if i was kicked.. maybe it was just bad lag but it happened 3x where i would be Chain BSed like that, and other people seem to use that kick method after a BS to get a free hit in after.


    Last edited by Glutebrah on Tue May 14, 2013 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 2:23 am

    Dibsville wrote:As with all problems, there is a solution.
    Try blocking, or attack with your weapon to cause a cancel BS.

    honestly never thought of blocking.. I would need to turn and face them though first obviously.

    attacking would do nothing because they aren't chain BSing you the typical way.. they kick first to make you stumble, so unless you stagger them with your weapon they still kick you and then run behind and BS
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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 2:27 am

    I know, I've come across it too recently.
    Then again, when I said attack I was thinking about my off-hand weapon, normally a Parrying Dagger or Falchion, so I could easily hit them even with lag. Shrug
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    Post by Jansports Tue May 14, 2013 2:29 am

    Pivot blocking into the kick should work. You'll eat the stamina loss but if it doesn't stumble you you're good to go. Just let yourself get up normally from the BS
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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 2:38 am

    Jansports wrote:Pivot blocking into the kick should work. You'll eat the stamina loss but if it doesn't stumble you you're good to go. Just let yourself get up normally from the BS

    yea i need to try that, honestly never thought it. a few of my characters don't always roll with a shield, or of you get back stabbed while two handing you stand up two handing (i think...)
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    Post by KrazykevS10 Tue May 14, 2013 3:10 am

    There was a good idea.I'm not sure as I've never tried it but as Jansports said,try getting up normally,as in let the full animation happen until your character has turned around.I think I've heard that you are actually still invincible while doing it.It may or may not work.
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    Post by Saturday-Saint Tue May 14, 2013 3:38 am

    There are a lot of different ways to get out of a chain BS and all of them can be countered if the player anticipates what you're going to do.

    The easiest way to get out is just backstepping away from the guy, but you will very often get hit by a regular attack if you do that. So very good vs. people who kick you a lot, not very good against people who just go straight for a BS with their Zweihander or something. Still, getting hit for 700 damage is better than getting BS'd for 1k and knocked back onto the ground for another mix-up. Also backstep gives hyper armor, so while you will take a lot of damage, you're pretty much guaranteed to escape pressure if you do this, even if the guy lands an attack on you he can't stunlock you or anything and you can just roll away and there's not much he can do to stop you.

    What KrazyKev is a good idea against people who don't kick you and if their weapon is slow enough to react to and/or you can poise through it. The turning around animation isn't invulnerable to regular attacks, but it IS invulnerable to BS's. So you can get up, delay a bit as you turn around, then roll away. If somebody goes for an instant BS, they'll do a normal attack and if you timed your roll properly, you'll roll through it. But if they kick you, then they can staggerstab you out of the kick.

    Also staggerstabs aren't guaranteed since you can turn around and parry, roll away, w/e.

    Uh I actually made a big post summarizing how to perform and avoid chain BS's, I'll go find it.

    Here: https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t20057-a-novella-on-chainstabs

    It's a bit rambly since I originally wrote it late at night as a series of posts on 4chan but it covers most of what you need to know.
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    Post by Ghadis_God Tue May 14, 2013 4:30 am

    Never seen anyone else do the kick->chainstab, I thought I invented it a long time ago for Darkstalking. I never learned the timing properly either, it's a tricky thing to pull off and it felt cheap so I didn't bother to perfect it.
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    Post by Saturday-Saint Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 am

    Most of the things I thought I discovered were independently discovered by other players, either before, after, or alongside me. I doubt there are more than perhaps two or three things which were truly first discovered by anybody within the entirety of this forum's membership. And most likely those two or three things are trivial.
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    Post by billy_bayonet Tue May 14, 2013 6:44 am

    at 5:40 watch the fight, that guy invaded me about 10 times during the recording sesh and used the same tactic everytime not much you can do against it im afraid
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    Post by Saturday-Saint Tue May 14, 2013 7:02 am

    billy_bayonet wrote:not much you can do against it im afraid

    You can

    A) Not get hit by the kick (rolling and backstepping are good for this, blocking also works).

    Or

    B) After getting kicked, do just about anything that isn't rolling straight forward.
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    Post by FinPeku Tue May 14, 2013 7:05 am

    Kick + bs is not inescapable. Rolling away from my opponent has saved me from it and from other wake-up attacks after kick, like katana slash or great combustion. You rolled towards him when you shouldn't so that was basically just a normal delayed chain bs.

    I'm sure you have bs'd roll bs fishers by simply waiting for them to roll towards you and then walking to them for the bs. That's what happened there.
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    Post by Saturday-Saint Tue May 14, 2013 7:32 am

    FinPeku wrote:I'm sure you have bs'd roll bs fishers by simply waiting for them to roll towards you and then walking to them for the bs. That's what happened there.

    That's not what he's doing. If you look at the position he warps back to when he gets BS'd, it's the same spot he was at when the hitstun from his kick ended rather than half way through his roll. The guy kicked him, then walked around behind him after the kick and BS'd him soon after his hitstun ended. Rolling forward isn't necessary for this maneuver to work, it just makes it easier.
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    Post by FinPeku Tue May 14, 2013 10:51 am

    @Saint - Yeah, you're probably right. I'm surprised there's enough time to do that after kick stun. Although, i remember backstabbing someone after kick stun when he did katana running attack and ended up being very close to me.

    Well, anyways, rolling away has saved me from getting chained like that. There is no inescapable chaining method. I think most people are simply so used to escape chaining by rolling towards the backstabber that they feel confused when the backstabber anticipates it and uses another method.
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    Post by Raksar Tue May 14, 2013 1:56 pm

    You can try something that has worked a couple of times for me. After the 1st BS, while still on animation kissing the floor, turn camera towards opponent. This will cause you to stand facing them instead of your back towards them, and you can stand with shield up too.
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    Post by RANT Tue May 14, 2013 2:16 pm

    from your vid billy im pretty sure you can counter it like you would counter a reg chain bs, like a wake up parry, usually rolling away will not work, the best thing you can do if you don't feel like parrying is to face them, better take a reg hit than a 1k bs.
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    Post by billy_bayonet Tue May 14, 2013 2:54 pm

    I tried many attempts i think paired with lag it was pretty difficult for me to muster up a counter, i shall however draft in someone to practice with< WHO WANT TO STAB ME IN THE BACK!?
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    Post by Tolvo Tue May 14, 2013 2:58 pm

    Actually a funny little counter that can work to this is actually a pivot kick, since as you stagger they get kicked and staggered also making it so they can't go for the stab. If they are going for a straight up stab though it can end badly for you.
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    Post by Saturday-Saint Tue May 14, 2013 5:59 pm

    Yeah, kick is great vs. staggerstabs that aren't 100% tight. So long-range WoG > BS's, kick > BS's, Clay > BS's. Probably don't try it vs. Zwei, though. Generally you either kick them out of their BS attempt, or you take a 0-damage BS.

    In any case, probably the absolute worst thing to do vs. staggerstab is to roll forward.
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    Post by Tolvo Wed May 15, 2013 1:26 am

    Then again, rolling forwards is generally a bad idea for dealing with any sort of attempt at a chainstab unless the person predicts you rolling towards them.

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