Well my rant is over, I'm just still sore about the nerf to my favorite weapon class and hope that both greatswords and ultra greatswords are improved in dark souls II. So far every instance of that beautiful greatsword in videos has made me hopeful
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I'd assume the best greatsword user in the world would have no problem with an R1 spammer. I consider myself only an above average GS user and I have no problems with poise stacked Gold Tracer users.Carphil wrote:I'm also unhappy about the nerf, I agree that it was most used to stunlock R1 spam and nothing more, but now people simply changed to another class weapon to do that, as pointed already, fixed basicly nothing.
My standard strategy with GS now its to R1, back off, dodge/block, R1 again, if stunlocked follow up with R2 or whatever you have stamina for, back, repeat. its more or less the same idea I had when using Ultra GS, except less damage per hit and just a bit faster attack. I honestly don't know how to "combo" with GS since everyone can easily predict its moveset, you take the best GS player in the world against a R1 gold tracer poise spammer and they have almost equal chance to win
My gripe isn't "why can't it stun lock D:" lol any good player used the swing time of the great sword before as a free parry because EVERYONE just spammed r1 so seeing a greatsword user meant a free parry lol. The move set nerf made it so this was changed and as it has been said it forced players to experiment with the other possibilities of the weapon class. Yes, the flamberge (almost un-used) rose and the claymore changed its use. the problem I have is that in a game so focused on mechanics that feel natural the change is jarring and reminds you "oh yea im playing a game" it breaks immersion. Also, I never said I don't toggle escape I just feel that the fact that as a whole the community goes "toggle escape glitch is good in my book" but "oh no greatsword too op nerf it nerf it!" is a weird situation. In a game where players should be acclimated to having to adapt to a situation they as a whole said "omg too hard nerf plz" and went against the whole Souls series mind set. The nerf to greatswords just meant that people found a new stun locking weapon, it didnt change anything. My current build uses a zweihander and a switch off man serpant and moonlight greatsword. When using either the msgs or the mlgs there is always a moment where I'm reminded while I play that the movements no longer feel natural. I am hoping that the alternating move sets of the upcoming game fix thisAigaios wrote:From what you are saying im guessing that you most likely used some sort of a greatsword before the nerf and now you are just not as effective with the weapon.
In my opinion, the swing speed of greatswords was too fast this caused them to be too powerful and too used for its stunlock abilities, the nerf made that a little bit harder without making the weapon type useless so I have no idea what is the rant about.
As for curved swords being better at stunlocking. In my opinion that is incorrect, yes I would agree that with mindless R1 spam it is easyer to stunlock someone with a curved sword but when it comes to strategic gameplay greatswords are better. Also if you feel too noble to toggle then you can just parry.
Anyway you are talking about a mechanic that is broken and unless this is a rant about you not being able to stunlock someone into infinity with a high speed greatsword because of toggleing and the nerf then there really is no point.
this, as mentioned, the nerf did nothing but forced R1 spammers to change to another weapon class. Of course greatswords are still one of the best classes, but the nerf was not necessary. take the GSoA for example, I would like to see you try to combo with that thing. R1 its very, very slow, can't connect a follow R1, R2 is completely out of the question, rolling R1 its easily parried, so what to do? I personally abuse its massive range to keep R1, roll back, R1, roll back til dead, because there's literally nothing else to do.XuitusTheGreat wrote:My gripe isn't "why can't it stun lock D:" lol any good player used the swing time of the great sword before as a free parry because EVERYONE just spammed r1 so seeing a greatsword user meant a free parry lol. The move set nerf made it so this was changed and as it has been said it forced players to experiment with the other possibilities of the weapon class. Yes, the flamberge (almost un-used) rose and the claymore changed its use. the problem I have is that in a game so focused on mechanics that feel natural the change is jarring and reminds you "oh yea im playing a game" it breaks immersion. Also, I never said I don't toggle escape I just feel that the fact that as a whole the community goes "toggle escape glitch is good in my book" but "oh no greatsword too op nerf it nerf it!" is a weird situation. In a game where players should be acclimated to having to adapt to a situation they as a whole said "omg too hard nerf plz" and went against the whole Souls series mind set. The nerf to greatswords just meant that people found a new stun locking weapon, it didnt change anything. My current build uses a zweihander and a switch off man serpant and moonlight greatsword. When using either the msgs or the mlgs there is always a moment where I'm reminded while I play that the movements no longer feel natural. I am hoping that the alternating move sets of the upcoming game fix thisAigaios wrote:From what you are saying im guessing that you most likely used some sort of a greatsword before the nerf and now you are just not as effective with the weapon.
In my opinion, the swing speed of greatswords was too fast this caused them to be too powerful and too used for its stunlock abilities, the nerf made that a little bit harder without making the weapon type useless so I have no idea what is the rant about.
As for curved swords being better at stunlocking. In my opinion that is incorrect, yes I would agree that with mindless R1 spam it is easyer to stunlock someone with a curved sword but when it comes to strategic gameplay greatswords are better. Also if you feel too noble to toggle then you can just parry.
Anyway you are talking about a mechanic that is broken and unless this is a rant about you not being able to stunlock someone into infinity with a high speed greatsword because of toggleing and the nerf then there really is no point.
So you think that the super fast swing speed of the greatswords was way more natural then the current swing speed of greatswords?XuitusTheGreat wrote:My gripe isn't "why can't it stun lock D:" lol any good player used the swing time of the great sword before as a free parry because EVERYONE just spammed r1 so seeing a greatsword user meant a free parry lol. The move set nerf made it so this was changed and as it has been said it forced players to experiment with the other possibilities of the weapon class. Yes, the flamberge (almost un-used) rose and the claymore changed its use. the problem I have is that in a game so focused on mechanics that feel natural the change is jarring and reminds you "oh yea im playing a game" it breaks immersion. Also, I never said I don't toggle escape I just feel that the fact that as a whole the community goes "toggle escape glitch is good in my book" but "oh no greatsword too op nerf it nerf it!" is a weird situation. In a game where players should be acclimated to having to adapt to a situation they as a whole said "omg too hard nerf plz" and went against the whole Souls series mind set. The nerf to greatswords just meant that people found a new stun locking weapon, it didnt change anything. My current build uses a zweihander and a switch off man serpant and moonlight greatsword. When using either the msgs or the mlgs there is always a moment where I'm reminded while I play that the movements no longer feel natural. I am hoping that the alternating move sets of the upcoming game fix thisAigaios wrote:From what you are saying im guessing that you most likely used some sort of a greatsword before the nerf and now you are just not as effective with the weapon.
In my opinion, the swing speed of greatswords was too fast this caused them to be too powerful and too used for its stunlock abilities, the nerf made that a little bit harder without making the weapon type useless so I have no idea what is the rant about.
As for curved swords being better at stunlocking. In my opinion that is incorrect, yes I would agree that with mindless R1 spam it is easyer to stunlock someone with a curved sword but when it comes to strategic gameplay greatswords are better. Also if you feel too noble to toggle then you can just parry.
Anyway you are talking about a mechanic that is broken and unless this is a rant about you not being able to stunlock someone into infinity with a high speed greatsword because of toggleing and the nerf then there really is no point.
That's what I'm wondering, has anyone here even swung a sword in real-life... and was it a sword as big as the "greatsword class"Aigaios wrote:
So you think that the super fast swing speed of the greatswords was way more natural then the current swing speed of greatswords?
I think you would get stun-locked pretty much no matter what. I still believe that weapon weight itself should add to poise, (if you go off dark souls stats, I think it should be like 15 poise for ninja flip, 25 poise for fast roll, 45 poise for mid roll, 60 poise for fat, and 80 for encumbered.) (note these numbers are kinda off the top of my head, so they may not be fair.)The Letter X wrote:I think the point Xuitus is trying to make is that a hit from a weapon in the greatsword class should lead to an easier "spam" combo than a weapon in the curved sword class for example.
In a real fight, I'd imagine that a few swings from a greatsword would stun or stagger me much easier than a scimitar or a falchion. This doesn't necessarily mean that the swing speed from the greatsword would need to be faster to keep me locked down.
The greatsword nerf added a weird stop in between attacks when chaining R1 attacks. The animations are no longer as smooth as they once were in my opinion.
^ pretty much my whole point its the weird "pause" after the first swing that just makes me kinda cringeThe Letter X wrote:I think the point Xuitus is trying to make is that a hit from a weapon in the greatsword class should lead to an easier "spam" combo than a weapon in the curved sword class for example.
In a real fight, I'd imagine that a few swings from a greatsword would stun or stagger me much easier than a scimitar or a falchion. This doesn't necessarily mean that the swing speed from the greatsword would need to be faster to keep me locked down.
The greatsword nerf added a weird stop in between attacks when chaining R1 attacks. The animations are no longer as smooth as they once were in my opinion.
I know I'm not among the previous posters in the thread but I have, actually. Greatswords and ultra greatswords.Soul of Stray Demon wrote:That's what I'm wondering, has anyone here even swung a sword in real-life... and was it a sword as big as the "greatsword class"
Awesome! You have the life I ever wantedMontante wrote:I know I'm not among the previous posters in the thread but I have, actually. Greatswords and ultra greatswords.Soul of Stray Demon wrote:That's what I'm wondering, has anyone here even swung a sword in real-life... and was it a sword as big as the "greatsword class"
The time it takes to make the first swing with them in-game looks pretty accurate to me but the follow ups are no good. After the first swing you want to rotate the sword and yourself to bring it back to where it started and keep the kinetic energy and momentum of the heavy sword going*, making the second (and third, fourth, fifth etc.) strike much faster than the first one. I haven't seen any footage of zweihanders from DkS2 yet but if they were more like this then it'd be so cool.
*Of course, this involves not driving the weapon right into the ground as is usually the case in Dark Souls.
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