bloodpixel wrote: Oo1Zer0 wrote:What would you suggest then? Making armor factor more into defense (hide from the havel cleaning ladies)? On another note I find it funny how people who do the obvious fish for backstabs generally don't use weapons made for that. Aren't daggers supposed to get a bonus when used for bs?
That's true, but other weapons can do the same amount of damage anyway.
Bloodpixel makes a very valid point which is part of the issue at hand. To answer the initial question, there is no "simple" answer. However if I were to try and fix the situation here is the way I'd suggest.
1. Reduce the backstab initiation zone.
Right now there is something akin to a 45 degree cone behind your opponent where you can initiate a backstab. While in reality this makes sense, with lag and other issues it's too abusable. Change it to a much smaller angle so you literally have to be directly behind an opponent to trigger the backstab animation. This will keep it possible for players to take advantage of times where the opponent leaves themselves open, but reduce the ability for the average player to just run up somewhere in the general vicinity and still get one off.
2. Add a small time frame where you cannot initiate a backstab after taking damage.
Poise backstabbing is a horrible meta game condition. Taking a claymore to the face in order to initiate a backstab is simply ridiculous. Poise is great to reduce the chance of getting stunlocked or to purposely trade blows with someone that has a smaller weapon. It should not however have been possible to use it as a method to get an easy backstab by charging through an opponents attack. Backstab is supposed to be a somewhat elegant attack so allowing someone in full Havel's/Giants to clumsily walk behind you while shrugging off your attack and backstab you is beyond lame. It only has to be a small number of frames, just enough so that it can't be used in this way.
3. Reduce the critical modifier on large, high AR weapons.
As was mentioned above, weapons that don't specialize in backstab damage still do more damage than weapons that have crit modifiers. Bandit daggers and rapiers aren't as much of a problem as BKGA and other large +15 weapons with DMB/SB/CMW.
Think of it this way. It's logical to believe that someone could easily roll past an attack and get in a quick kidney stab with something like a dagger, short sword or rapier. It is not so logical for someone wielding a weapon as large as them to roll past you and do the same thing. The wind up time for small weapons is very short, while the wind up for large weapons is long and very telegraphed. The problem is there is no wind up animation for backstab. Once you lock it in it's guaranteed. Since there is probably no method in the game to muck with backstab wind up animations, it's best to handle it via the crit modifier.
Daggers and rapiers have crit modifiers(some are hidden) above 1.0. All other weapons are considered baseline at 1.0. My suggestion would be to lower that crit damage on all large, high AR weapons so that they don't outdamage backstabs by weapons that are supposed to be specialized to do so. Something like 0.85 versus 1.0(perhaps a scaling modifier based on weapon class). That way they still do bonus damage for the backstab, but it isn't scaled to ridiculous numbers. If you've been backstabbed by a BKGA user with a hornet ring you'll know what I mean.
This won't fix all the issues, but it should reduce the amount of backstabs performed by scrubby players who are the real issue here. Backstabs are needed in pvp as a deterrent for people who would otherwise resort to risky actions(chugging estus, sloppily swinging their weapon around, attempt to cast a slower spell, turn to try and run away). Backstabs help prevent sloppy players from getting away with stupid tactics and will reward patient, skilled players for taking advantage of those situations. Remove them, or their viability, and pvp will be uglier than it is now.
Good luck trying to kill that guy in full Havel's who's chugging his stack of +7 estus flasks. You'll likely run out of stamina long before you're able to stun lock and finish him off. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could wear full Havel's/Giant's, throw on a wolf ring and then spam firestorm and laugh at your opponent while they hopelessly try to stop you? I don't think it would be. If you have anything less than an Ultra greatsword or better class weapon you would not succeed in time.