... Dark souls review?

I've read the majority of the conversation, but I don't really have time to read it all. All I have to say is

Winner: Dark Souls

I got skyrim at release as well as Dark Souls. Now, I admit that I stopped playing dark souls completely by the time Skyrim came out, but to say that it was because I thought DkS was bad is not even close. I had friends who just wanted to move on. They didn't want to stick around one video game, and they still do that, and I'm stickin with Dark Souls. I played Skyrim, it was an amazing looking game. Its RPG aspect was interesting, and I liked being able to work hard at my character. But, honstly, after about 9 hours of gameplay, I was finished with the game. I had 50 1h sword and I had 50 conjuration. I put the game on hard, and I never worked hard at anything. I killed the final dragon in the main storyline like NOTHING. I killed everything as if it was NOTHING. None of the puzzles were hard, and I never got stuck. Ever. Everything was new, and there was always new content, but it was empty contenet. A big empty jar is an empty jar, no matter how giant it is.

I may have stepped on some Skryim players' toes, but I played that game for about 25 hours total, and then I was done. I didn't feel ANY need to find out ANYTHING at all because everything was found, really. I got a few mods to make my character look SUPER pretty, then I was finished. There is never any finish with Dark Souls. Ever. At least, I won't be able to find one before the PC release

Oh, and the only FF game I've ever played was XIII. Yep. Horrible. it has 50 hours of gameplay, I got through 20, and there was just no reward. Though, I doubt anyone will disagree with me on that haha!

Dark Souls sucked me in hard when I came back to it. I think the main reason why I didn't play it back then is because I broke my ankle, and it's a huge pain to have to lay down sideways for hours on end. I could put my laptop on my lap and play Skyrim, though. And a few other stuff, but I actually had wanted to play Dark Souls during that time, but being high on pain meds while feeling extreme pain and hurting my back for "no reason" just wasn't worth it haha!

You play RPGs joe?

Oh btw that ^ is someone dismissing something they don't understand and/or enjoy. Doesn't make him an idiot. Just saying.

I am not a hardcore gamer. I haven't played much. I've played games from Luigi's mansion to MLB Slugfest to TERA Online, WoW, and Dark Souls. It's been a crazy range of games, and I enjoy pretty much all of them. Some of them are simply more enjoyable than others. But RPG's are usually up there when it comes to how enjoyable they are. I like knowing my character is what I make him or her. My toon will be what I want it to be. Even if it's messed up, it's MINE. Like my music. No one I know likes my music. At least, not all of my music.

Why?

You're a lot more hardcore than me Joe

Forum, a Role Playing game is literally a game in which a player takes up a role, playing out a character either in game or within their own mind. Decision making is a key part of RPG's. While the term is mostly bastardized these days, Dark Souls still follows the ideas of a Roleplaying game and as such it really does fit into the genre well. Now I think of course there should be a lot of specifications added onto what it is considered, as just RPG is incredibly vague. However playing as the Chosen Undead is playing a role, a role which you use to shape the world and make important decisions. Even if it isn't blatantly stated there are a lot of moral choices to be made within the game that while ambiguous still are elements of RPG's. Now in regards to the other form, such as filling roles within groups Dark Souls really doesn't fit. In Dark Souls you are one person and without a true class system you are really left to fill every possible role. Still, simply stating it is weak in its terms of RPG mechanics, that's pretty ignorant Forum. I know there have been games that are better about it, but judge it on its own merits not the merits of others.

@Serious Hahaha! I never did oldschool stuff. I stated on the Gamecube, and i wasn't allowed to be on it much. I had to read a book, then divide the amount of time I spent reading by two, and that's how long I could play video games. I didn't like reading as a kid haha! Eragon got me into reading at age 13, three years after my family got the gamecube, and long after that reading rule was dropped. My mother did not want anything that had to do with medieval times. Any thing Fantasy. And, well, that's still my #1 interest when it comes to books. A fantasy with magic and all that is awesome, and I couldn't discover it for a long time.

Anyway, I have played a lot of oddball games, but none extremely hardcore. I played games long-term by myself until I learned group gaming, but then none of my friends wanted to stick with one game like I did, so i never really could dive in as much as I wanted to. But then i just couldn't move on from Dark Souls the second time I got into it. It just stuck, and won't let go. NO other game has done that for me. And that's why I say

Winner: Dark Souls.

Uhh. I guess I came in during a conversation that doesn't have much to do with the OP, huh? I read the first half of the conversations, and I wanted to talk about my experience with Skyrim since Acidic got to hahaha!

An RPG, I heard a friend argue, also means Roll Playing Game. I think that's a bunch of bull crap. It's Role Playing Game. You play a role. Skyrim fits it, Dark Souls fits it, and FF fits it. What's the problem?

PS: I still haven't read the second half of the thread

Funny also, while I love Dark Souls probably my favorite RPG of all time would have to be Super Mario RPG, I love the Mario RPG series in general haha...Can't wait for the new 3DS one.

Favorite RPG for me is the Kingdom Hearts series, but only the ones on the PS2. I can't stand Handheld games, and gameplay is a huge factor in a game, obviously.

PS: Welcome back, Tolvo! I invite you to tell us your story in the Let It Go thread

Welcome back, Tolvo. I hope you are well and healthy.

My surgery is on Monday, so I'm not back yet just making a stop by. Now cut that out before we drag this thread off topic, get back to talking about RPG's and Dark Souls!

Frankly I don't think the term RPG should be used as it is at all these days. It's just too vague, hell Call of Duty could be considered an RPG. I can't think of a better myself though.

Tolvo wrote:Forum, a Role Playing game is literally a game in which a player takes up a role, playing out a character either in game or within their own mind. Decision making is a key part of RPG's. While the term is mostly bastardized these days, Dark Souls still follows the ideas of a Roleplaying game and as such it really does fit into the genre well. Now I think of course there should be a lot of specifications added onto what it is considered, as just RPG is incredibly vague. However playing as the Chosen Undead is playing a role, a role which you use to shape the world and make important decisions. Even if it isn't blatantly stated there are a lot of moral choices to be made within the game that while ambiguous still are elements of RPG's. Now in regards to the other form, such as filling roles within groups Dark Souls really doesn't fit. In Dark Souls you are one person and without a true class system you are really left to fill every possible role. Still, simply stating it is weak in its terms of RPG mechanics, that's pretty ignorant Forum. I know there have been games that are better about it, but judge it on its own merits not the merits of others.

By your logic tolvo, nearly every game is a role playing game. I was referencing the story telling thats the halmark of the RPG genre, DKS doesn't have that. Neither is there any motivation beyond curiosity to discover whats next.

I am judging it on its own merits, the merits of a game that isn't easily quantifiable by current genre arctypes. It isn't an RPG, so as an RPG its terrible. The same could be said of COD.

Forum Pirate wrote:By your logic tolvo, nearly every game is a role playing game. I was referencing the story telling thats the halmark of the RPG genre, DKS doesn't have that. Neither is there any motivation beyond curiosity to discover whats next.

Extremely wrong. Trying to find the next boss for the bells is EXTREME. I think you've forgotten the first time you played the game, and you heard about the bells and that it did "something." For me, I wanted to know what the hell that something was! I wanted to know BAD.

And there is story telling. It's in the items. It's all around you. If you simply LOOK.

It is the essence of Dark Souls, it doesn't hold your hand. Whether you learn the story or history is about if you can find it or not, or whether or not you want to search for it. It isn't traditional, but I actually really like that. It reminds me more of a classic novel, where things are to be interpreted rather than just made blatant.

Except it is an RPG.

Now if you want to talk about how the stats are, yeah I can see that. Some of them are poorly implemented, Resistance comes to mind. But that doesn't entirely fall under the definition of an RPG. It's just a common trait.

I wonder then, would you guys consider a sports game an RPG? Seeing as how you assume the role of a life-like player and take total control of the avatar's actions and how he interacts with his environment.

By definition, yes. That's why I really think a new term should be applied. It's sort of like using the term theist.

"That guys a theist."

"Okay, so are like, seven billion other people. Can you be more descriptive?"

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I wonder then, would you guys consider a sports game an RPG? Seeing as how you assume the role of a life-like player and take total control of the avatar's actions and how he interacts with his environment.

Only if you could ONLY play that one character. And that that character had a role, and you felt like you were a part of his life. That's what an RPG is. It's about taking the role of the character. Even if you only played one character and only could play him on the field, the role aspect wouldn't stand out. Thus, it isn't really an RPG. A role playing game mainly is about the role. The character.

So you take issue with the RPG label as an umbrella term for a genre.

JoeBroski09 wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:By your logic tolvo, nearly every game is a role playing game. I was referencing the story telling thats the halmark of the RPG genre, DKS doesn't have that. Neither is there any motivation beyond curiosity to discover whats next.

Extremely wrong. Trying to find the next boss for the bells is EXTREME. I think you've forgotten the first time you played the game, and you heard about the bells and that it did "something." For me, I wanted to know what the hell that something was! I wanted to know BAD.

And there is story telling. It's in the items. It's all around you. If you simply LOOK.

Thats called curiosity joe, lol. You know, that thing I stated was motivation?

Thats not really storytelling, thats creating a believable world. Every game has that, in varying amounts.

Forum Pirate wrote:

JoeBroski09 wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:By your logic tolvo, nearly every game is a role playing game. I was referencing the story telling thats the halmark of the RPG genre, DKS doesn't have that. Neither is there any motivation beyond curiosity to discover whats next.

Extremely wrong. Trying to find the next boss for the bells is EXTREME. I think you've forgotten the first time you played the game, and you heard about the bells and that it did "something." For me, I wanted to know what the hell that something was! I wanted to know BAD.

And there is story telling. It's in the items. It's all around you. If you simply LOOK.

Thats called curiosity joe, lol. You know, that thing I stated was motivation?

Thats not really storytelling, thats creating a believable world. Every game has that, in varying amounts.

To me, that doesn't really seem like curiosity, even though it really is. Idk. I remember when I played, and everything I found made me want to find the next thing. Yeah, maybe it didn't tell me what was next, but I think that that's boohockey for a game to do so. Luigi's mansion sure as hell didn't tell you what was next! And it was an RPG... right?

Not really. Its arguable, and I could see both sides, but I'd still say not really.

I've begun to dislike the term RPG as a definition for it's own genre. The more I think about it, the more I believe it to simply be a descriptive term. How many games nowadays would you describe only with the term RPG? You have JRPGs, Action RPGs, Strategy RPGs, MMORPGs, but no pure RPGs. RPG defines why you play a game, not the core mechanics of the game.

Think about what the acronym stands for; Role Playing Game. You play the game either to adopt or assume another role and project your decisions onto their actions to affect the outcome and/or progression of the story. Typically this takes the form of a stat-based and levelling progression system, allowing a great range of personal customization in how characters you are role-playing adapt to the world around them. However, this progression does not typically define the core gameplay, only the level of customization allowed in how you progress through the game. The core gameplay is typically what defines how you play a game, but not why. You don't play an action game the same way you play a strategy game, but you play an Action RPG and a Strategy RPG for the same reason; to assume a role personally and choose how it progresses through a game world.

To judge something like Dark Souls purely under the label of RPG is incomplete. The reviewer seems to chock up RPGs purely under the scope of Narrative RPGs along the vein of Final Fantasy, where there progression is defined as advancing the story. In those games, you don't beat bosses so much to test your skills as you do to discover what impact defeating this boss will have on your characters' situations. Dark Souls seems to have most of its progression comes from facing increasingly difficult combat situations. You aren't supposed to be concerned about how what you are doing will impact the story, but rather with how what you are doing will allow you to survive and overcome combat situations.

Dark Souls takes most of its core gameplay mechanics from action games, emphasizing the combat as the core activity, with incrementally increasing difficulty in combat being the main indicator of progression. It also uses player choice in character customization as a role-playing aspect in how progression occurs. Dark Souls is an action game. Dark Souls is also a Role Playing Game.

I wish someone would sum up Forum's argument in a sentence for me. Because this "DkS isn't an RPG" position of his doesn't seem to totally wash.

Forum, Storytelling is building a believable world for stories that use realism. Realism in the context of its own world. Dark Souls tells its story with its world, its characters, its artwork. Everything is there, just in a manner that isn't traditional. This sort of comes to mind earlier how something went over your head and you just dismissed it. It doesn't make you and idiot no, but forum it is pretty ignorant, as well as arrogant. Forum you have always been about seeing things as objectively as possible so why are you letting your opinions and emotions sway you so much in this discussion? I haven't read the entire thread so did someone offend you? if so I do apologize and understand if you are reacting like this, we all let our emotions get the best of us sometimes.

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I wish someone would sum up Forum's argument in a sentence for me. Because this "DkS isn't an RPG" position of his doesn't seem to totally wash.

While I didn't sum up his argument, I'd like to think my most recent post says something about the issue