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Tolvo
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Poll

    To buff or not to buff...

    [ 6 ]
    Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_lcap25%Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_rcap [25%] 
    [ 7 ]
    Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_lcap29%Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_rcap [29%] 
    [ 11 ]
    Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_lcap46%Buff not lest ye be buffed I_vote_rcap [46%] 

    Total Votes: 24
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Phoenix Rising Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:23 pm

    Lately when dueling I have been using sunlight blade...but ONLY if the other player chooses to. Although I prefer an unbuffed duel, if the other player has the ability to kill me in 3-4 swings I may as well level the playing field a bit.

    Just wondering how everyone else feels about buffs or if they have an unwritten etiquette when it comes to using them, like me.
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:43 pm

    I don't understand when people talk about buffs like this. It's just the same as everything else. When I use my Mage I use a +5 enchanted wep so no buff. When I use my pyro I have a +15 wep with charcoal resin. Some builds are made to use buffs while others do not. I want to say "I dont understand your poll" but I do, I just really don't agree with the reasoning behind it.
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    Post by Phoenix Rising Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:47 pm

    Yeah the poll was kind of in a never/always format...im sure people have some builds that use them and some that don't. It was more of a situational question.
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    Post by Knight Alundil Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:50 pm

    But that's what I mean. If you have a buff to use you should use it unless you want to be at a disadvantage. The attunenent slot/item slot you use for your buff is points you chose to spend. I really don't see the point in not using it. It's not as if your opponent would stop using fire temPest just because you're in a small environment. If you chose to have a buff as a spell then you should be using it surely.


    Last edited by Knight Alundil on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Juutas Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:51 pm

    If you need buff, you're not good enough. That's right, I said that.
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Tristan Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:36 pm

    Juutas wrote:If you need buff, you're not good enough. That's right, I said that.

    What is this?... I want to see you make it to the top of the book of the guilty with an unbuffed +15 whip?
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Juutas Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:39 pm

    Umbassa Zealot wrote:
    Juutas wrote:If you need buff, you're not good enough. That's right, I said that.

    What is this?... I want to see you make it to the top of the book of the guilty with an unbuffed +15 whip?

    Have you actually played against the guy who is on top of BotG (on xbox)? That guy is a poor player and all he does is play as ******* as he can and prey on low lvl players who he drops indict item before he kills you can indict him... so yeah, BotG doesn't really mean anything.
    Why the whip anyways? everyone knows whips suck. I use unbuffed +15 Iaito though and it has never even crossed my mind to buff it because I simply don't need the buff.


    Last edited by BaalDS on Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Not sure if posted Username)
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by VeranoChico Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:58 pm

    It's all part of the game. If another player buffs I ain't gonna whine about it. That buff is simply part of their repertoire and it gives me a good idea on what their build is.

    I can say with honesty that in terms of skill, I'm a low tier pvper. However the most direct answer to someone that does such a buff is to simply wait for their buff to end.

    And in my opinion, if I'm rolling with an int or faith build, chances are I will have CMW, SLB, or DMB in my slots.
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    Post by Tristan Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:59 pm

    Why the whip anyways? everyone knows whips suck. I use unbuffed +15 Iaito though and it has never even crossed my mind to buff it because I simply don't need the buff.

    Show me your skills with a underdog weapon at +15 and I will concede to your statement about buffs being a crutch.
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Juutas Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:19 pm

    Umbassa Zealot wrote:
    Why the whip anyways? everyone knows whips suck. I use unbuffed +15 Iaito though and it has never even crossed my mind to buff it because I simply don't need the buff.

    Show me your skills with a underdog weapon at +15 and I will concede to your statement about buffs being a crutch.

    ...dude, I play naked with Iaito +15 (that is the weakest katana in the game dmg-wise) without using grass or magic and I still don't buff my weapon...I think that should be underdog enough for you.
    And what are these underdog weapons you are talking about? Every non-buffed weapon is underdog weapon against buffed one, or are you saying this because you are using buffs only on **** weapons?
    I don't whine about buffing and usually I even let my opponent to buff before I attack, but I just consider buffing a tryhard thing to do.
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Idoloni_Belli Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:16 pm

    Buffs are funny. They have amazing damage output but if the opponent is just dodging you, you're doing no damage at all... so I say buff all you want, I'll just dodge for that minute or so and then fight you.
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:20 pm

    Juutas wrote:Have you actually played against the guy who is on top of BotG (on xbox)? That guy is a poor player

    I thought that was Rynn. silly
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    Post by Rarity Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:25 pm

    Funny....I don’t neither have enough intelligence bore do i desire to buff. But i don’t see it as a unfair play stile.

    It can be abuse or it cant. Simple as that
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    Buff not lest ye be buffed Empty Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Tristan Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:43 pm

    Juutas wrote:
    Umbassa Zealot wrote:
    Why the whip anyways? everyone knows whips suck. I use unbuffed +15 Iaito though and it has never even crossed my mind to buff it because I simply don't need the buff.

    Show me your skills with a underdog weapon at +15 and I will concede to your statement about buffs being a crutch.

    ...dude, I play naked with Iaito +15 (that is the weakest katana in the game dmg-wise) without using grass or magic and I still don't buff my weapon...I think that should be underdog enough for you.
    And what are these underdog weapons you are talking about? Every non-buffed weapon is underdog weapon against buffed one, or are you saying this because you are using buffs only on **** weapons?
    I don't whine about buffing and usually I even let my opponent to buff before I attack, but I just consider buffing a tryhard thing to do.

    http://tinyurl.com/8vbj4lb

    I think this illustrates my points very fine and debunks yours.

    Not only is the laito arguably the best moveset in the katana category it is also not very far from the uchi.

    Even if I raise dexterity to 40, it's only 10 points of damage off from the uchi. It hardly makes a difference. Even the Chaos Blade is weaker without humanity. Washing Pole is also weaker than the laito at this range. Your Laito is actually quite strong and very top tier weapon material.

    going back to my original example...

    http://tinyurl.com/9qfva86

    We can see that your weapon of choice is not an underdog weapon, especially for the typical sl range of PvP. A Whip however does 1 point of more damage than the Chaos Blade if you don't have any humanity. The Mail Breaker has considerably less damage.

    Before I close I would like for you to define tryhard. As "Tryhard" is not a part of the official english written language and is slang I could perceive it differently than you, and I wish to fully understand your argument.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:49 pm

    On my 120's, I always buff if the build has one. I use dmb, so if you don't like it use great magic shield or great magic barrier and laugh at me.
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    Post by swordiris Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 pm

    I buff. Don't care what other player thinks of that.

    I'm strict about not wearing family masks and DWGR I also won't heal.

    Other than that I duel to win no holds barred.
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    Post by reim0027 Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:02 pm

    For me, it depends. Sometimes I buff, sometimes I don't. In FC, I don't buff. For invasions, I do sometimes. When in the forest, always.
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    Post by DoughGuy Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:06 pm

    I dont understand this concept of nbot buffing. If I put 20 SLs into fth so I could use a buff then I am going to use my buff. I paid for it so Im not going to pretend Im a SL 100 against your SL 120 for any reason.
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    Post by reim0027 Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:16 pm

    For duels, buffing can be frowned upon. The duels can be over too quickly. 3 hits and dead.
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    Post by DoughGuy Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:24 pm

    I can understand that, but still if I have 30 fth and forgot to save Reah from dying in NG then until I get my WoGs Im using my buff.
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    Post by ICEFANG Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm

    I don't use magical buffs because I dislike magic usage in general, but I buff with Rotted Pine Resin if anything, there's no logical reason to not buff in a high risk situation.
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    Post by Tolvo Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:02 am

    I only don't like buffing in duels that are supposed to be silly or for fun. If I'm fatrolling in Smough's Armor without a shield and using a boar helmet, do you really have to DMB+3 your Pike? I mean come on, I'm gonna lose the fight, why was that necessary? It kind of comes off to me like, "I don't want to play with you, better get back to my world/send you back to your own as soon as possible."
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    Post by Juutas Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:18 am

    Umbassa Zealot wrote:
    Juutas wrote:
    Umbassa Zealot wrote:
    Why the whip anyways? everyone knows whips suck. I use unbuffed +15 Iaito though and it has never even crossed my mind to buff it because I simply don't need the buff.

    Show me your skills with a underdog weapon at +15 and I will concede to your statement about buffs being a crutch.

    ...dude, I play naked with Iaito +15 (that is the weakest katana in the game dmg-wise) without using grass or magic and I still don't buff my weapon...I think that should be underdog enough for you.
    And what are these underdog weapons you are talking about? Every non-buffed weapon is underdog weapon against buffed one, or are you saying this because you are using buffs only on **** weapons?
    I don't whine about buffing and usually I even let my opponent to buff before I attack, but I just consider buffing a tryhard thing to do.

    http://tinyurl.com/8vbj4lb

    I think this illustrates my points very fine and debunks yours.

    Not only is the laito arguably the best moveset in the katana category it is also not very far from the uchi.

    Even if I raise dexterity to 40, it's only 10 points of damage off from the uchi. It hardly makes a difference. Even the Chaos Blade is weaker without humanity. Washing Pole is also weaker than the laito at this range. Your Laito is actually quite strong and very top tier weapon material.

    going back to my original example...

    http://tinyurl.com/9qfva86

    We can see that your weapon of choice is not an underdog weapon, especially for the typical sl range of PvP. A Whip however does 1 point of more damage than the Chaos Blade if you don't have any humanity. The Mail Breaker has considerably less damage.

    Before I close I would like for you to define tryhard. As "Tryhard" is not a part of the official english written language and is slang I could perceive it differently than you, and I wish to fully understand your argument.

    Sorry, but I'm a bit lost on what point you are trying to make here? So your point is that you should buff bad weapons because they are bad?
    My point stays the same: If you cannot perform well enough with your weapon of choice unbuffed...then I guess you need to buff it, simple.
    I just don't buff whatever weapon I'm using or whatever build I'm using (I use other weapons than Iaito too, but that is the weapon I use the most.) because I simply don't need to add few hundred dmg bonus on my weapon.
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    Post by Juutas Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:20 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Juutas wrote:Have you actually played against the guy who is on top of BotG (on xbox)? That guy is a poor player

    I thought that was Rynn. silly

    Really....? Oh man -____-
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    Post by Tolvo Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:23 am

    I will say, there are builds that totally can't do enough damage without the buffs, and I mean doing less damage without the buff than a person using a +15. Mostly though, these are builds designed for Co-Op, on my Co-Op toons that use buffing, I only planned the high damage for boss fights. But, if an invader comes along I'll basically need my CMW to deal even 2-300 damage to them.

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