Extinguish all Bonfires Run: compilation

Hi,

With fireLess's blessings, I'm putting together a thread for the no-bonfire run.

I'm trying to compile all the information here, in an easy-to-read format so that people that are interested in a challenge, but not really interested in the lore don't have to go through 60 pages of documentation.

I'm hoping that other people will chip in and correct any mistakes I might make, as I am in the Challenge group and not really in the Lore group, so I might miss things as I skim the original topic.

The goal is to put together no-bonfire run trials, and have every possible scenario covered, and mark off when people complete said scenario.

Here's to hoping it's possible! And here's to the fun and challenge it brings!

EDIT: No Bonfire isn't very clear. I'm going to rename this to Extinguish Bonfires.

Goals:
The goal is to extinguish all bonfires. This means you cannot light any bonfires. Kindling is questionable, as it goes against the principle, but without kindling it makes it very difficult to complete a no bonfire run.

Rules:
1) No lighting any bonfires.
2) Resting at a lit bonfire is OK (I think)
3) All bonfire keepers must be killed (eventually). The one in Firelink Shrine can only be killed by Lautrec, so you must allow him to do this.
4) Collecting firekeeper souls and using them to upgrade Estus flasks might be ok.
5) Extinguishing Ash Lake and the Everlasting dragon is the main obstacle. No one knows how to do this, or if it's even possible.


Starting Classes

As far as I know, your starting class shouldn't matter. However, personally, I think Pyromancer, Cleric and Knight don't fit as Pyromancers are pro flame, and Clerics/Knights belong to Way of White. Their mission is to kindle bonfires, not extinguish them.

I personally think Deprived makes the most sense, but Cleric would give you the easiest run with their spell of Heal.

Starting Gift
I believe the Pendant or nothing makes the most sense. However, the Pendant is on Rhea and she is attempting to kindle bonfires. Perhaps the pendant is in the opposite direction.

Stats
Stats shouldn't make any difference.

Level
Level shouldn't make any difference.

Sinning
fireLess is trying not to Sin in his runs. Perhaps just use Oswald whenever you want to switch a covenant. Personally, I don't see why you couldn't sin, since those are in the eyes of a God and we are attempting to remove the gods (or, their influence).

New Games
User Rynn has reported strange things happening on NG7.
https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t7909p45-extinguish-the-bonfires-no-bonfire-run#165625

New Game(s) may/may not be important. There is some thought that if there was something buried so deep in the game, that it would be on NG7.

NPCs

Currently, no rules concerning NPCs. Killing them all, saving them all, or some kind of combination.
1) Kill them when they're human.
2) Kill them when they're hollow.
3) Save them from becoming hollow.

Lautrec:
What we know is that he kills Reah; why or for what purpose, we don't know. But his purpose seems to align with our purpose, so perhaps leaving him be is best. Another option is killing him, and holding the soul.

Primordial Serpents:
It is speculated by fireLess that neither alternative of the primordial serpents is the 'true' ending and that both are being manipulated by them.

However, ushering in the Age of Dark seems to be in alignment with the majority of the primordial serpents, since there are so many in the closing scene. If you have to pick one ending, obviously do not link the fire.

fireLess does not talk to either Serpent when he gets the Lord Vessel. He merely drops down and places it.

To do:
Chart out some major options to handling the NPCs. In particular, Lautrec.

Griggs of Vinheim
Rickert of Vinheim
Big Hat Logan
Dusk of Oolacile
Ingward

Laurentius of the Great Swamp
Quelana of Izalith
Eingyi of the Great Swamp

Petrus of Thorolund
Reah of Thorolund

Crestfallen Warrior
Anastacia of Astora
Kingseeker Frampt

Solaire of Astora
Undead Merchant (Male)
Andre of Astora
Knight Lautrec Of Carim
Oswald of Carim

Alvina of the Darkroot Wood
Shiva of the East

Domhnall of Zena
Quelaan
Siegmeyer of Catarina
Crestfallen Merchant
Darkstalker Kaathe
Darkmoon Knightess
Gwynevere
GWyndolin

Giant Blacksmith
Crossbreed Priscilla
Blacksmith Vamos
Patches the Hyena
Sieglinde of Catarina

Covenants
Way of White: discouraged, as their goal is to light bonfires.
Princess Guard: N/A
Blade of the Darkmoon: N/A. However, this is one of the only Covenants to have a God (or at least, Demi-god) in charge. Some power there.
Warriors of Sunlight: Seems to make sense to kill the Everlasting Dragon.
Forest Hunters: N/A. I don't think they'd care one way or another.
Chaos Servant: N/A
Gravelord: N/A
Path of the Dragon: Dragons want to extinguish the Age of Fire, but that doesn't solve the issue of killing the everlasting dragon.
Dark Wraith: This makes some sense, as they are the only covenant actively trying to bring upon the Age of Dark.

Humanity

Hollow all game, or human all game. Those are the two options I believe. Being human makes the most sense.



Vagrants
Vagrants are marked as being "Good" or "Evil" and can be triggered by dropping different items. I don't think any thought has been given on how these may effect a no bonfire run.

Any speculation?

Everlasting Dragon

The bane of this run. From what I understand from the Lore, the Great Lords defeated the dragons with a combination of Lord Gwyn Lord of Sunlight, The Witch and her Fire, Nito and his Gravelord magic of death, , the Pygmy with the Dark Soul, and Seath the Scaleless's betrayal. The community believes this is the way to kill the dragon, if there is one.

A puzzle is why the Everlasting Dragon is kindling a bonfire, since they seem to be part of the Age of Fire, and Fire is what killed them.

The lore also says Dragons are susceptible to Lightning.

To Do: list any lore/theories that are missing.


List of items/spells/events to try:
Lightning:
Sunlight Spear

Death/Decay:
Toxic Mist
Gravelord Sword

Fire:
Fire spells (Chaos Fire as well)

Seath?
Seath items? Moonlight Greatsword?

Pygmy?
Pygmy items?

Other:
DragonSlayer Spear
Leo Ring
Izalith Catalyst makes sense here as well.
Old Witches Ring?

Current permutations that have been tried:

Firekeeper Souls

Most people are using these to reinforce their estus flasks.

Options are:
Leave them alone.
Pick them up, but don't use them.
Pick them up, consume them.
Pick them up, use them to reinforce estus flasks.


Lord Vessel

As far as anyone knows, there is only one use for this. It has been attempted to be used at the Eternal Dragon's bonfire without success.

Recommendation is to not place the Lord Vessel unless you are out of options.

Gear

Helpful gear in a no bonfire run are:
Evil Eye
Butcher's Knife
Humanities

Gear that makes sense to extinguish the flames are:
Occult. The Age of Dark is the Age of Man (or, perhaps, the Age of the Pygmy). Might be the same thing. Occult is supposed to be Anti-God whatever that means.

Runs

VI Mark VI

Starting Class: Deprived
Starting Gift: Nothing; although thinking Twin Humanities, or Old Witches Ring might be ok.
Sinning: Will not sin
Covenant: Will not join any covenant
Bonfires: Will not kindle any bonfires
Humanities: Will be human, all the time. I'll likely play offline. Will try to have as many humanities on me as possible.

No BB glitch.

Lautrec: Will Summon him, will talk with him, will let him kill the Firekeeper. I think he's on my side, or at least has similar goals.

Primordial Serpents: Will not talk/side with either.
Fire Keeper Souls: Will collect them but not use them to enforce Estus flasks.

Notes:
This will be a tough run. The easiest run I can imagine would be to start as a Cleric, and get a pair of heal spells. However, I think Way of White runs counter to the Extinguish bonfire run, so I will not join it. No other covenant seems relevant. I will hope humanities, Evil Eye ring, and clever play (go bow) will keep me safe. Going to pump DEX/END/VIT in that order. Goals will be to grab the Composite Bow, and a good set of armour (Stone Armour perhaps).

Sanctus would be a god send, but good luck getting that out of TotG.

I don't get the whole no bonfire run thing. I assume a lot of the people who do it just use homeward bone or some other method of using bonfires indirectly. You WILL die, meaning you will respawn at a bonfire. So technically you will be using them. Seems more like a hassle then a challenge, but ive never tryed it so i can't judge.

I suggest trying a low lvl playthrough first, maybe just pick whatever starting class you like the most and just don't lvl up at all.

The intent is somewhat like the Age of Dark ending I think. To extinguish all the bonfires. People doing it still seem to use the bonfires, they just try to extinguish them all at the end.

Edit:

Changed the title so it made sense.

Ok. Out of juice for now. Would love some assistance in updating this.

Cheers

Let me know if I can assist with any info. I was toe to toe with Rynn and fireLESS for a little while, but once I completed two runs I felt like I needed something a little more decisive before trying another. The idea that the stone dragon bonfire doesnt extinguish has my frustration throuh the roof.

IV_Mark_VI wrote:NPCs

Currently, no rules concerning NPCs. Killing them all, saving them all, or some kind of combination.
1) Kill them when they're human.
2) Kill them when they're hollow.
3) Save them from becoming hollow.

Lautrec:
What we know is that he kills Reah; why or for what purpose, we don't know. But his purpose seems to align with our purpose, so perhaps leaving him be is best. Another option is killing him, and holding the soul.

Primordial Serpents:
It is speculated by fireLess that neither alternative of the primordial serpents is the 'true' ending and that both are being manipulated by them.

However, ushering in the Age of Dark seems to be in alignment with the majority of the primordial serpents, since there are so many in the closing scene. If you have to pick one ending, obviously do not link the fire.

fireLess does not talk to either Serpent when he gets the Lord Vessel. He merely drops down and places it.

To do:
Chart out some major options to handling the NPCs. In particular, Lautrek.

Hey Lautrec doesn't kill Rhea, he kills the firekeeper at Firelink Shrine. You probably knew that but I was just making a little correction.

Also I've tried a no bonnie run and it is a lot more difficult than I imagined. Should I upgrade my flask? Should I have started with the master key? I started with the Pendant but going through upper blighttown is the bane of my existence. Maybe I'll retry with a thief and a Pendant.

Yeah, without the masterkey that would be rough.

Use the Evil Eye. Make sure you have a shortbow/light crossbow.

Upper blighttown is much easier if you have a bow. Use it to lure the big trolls to their death, then you just have to worry about the Ghouls. They're not so bad, especially if you pull them towards you. Down below, the bow can be used to kill the mosquitoes. I would make grabbing either the ninja gear (Shadow Gear) or the Pyromancer starting gear to be a top priority; the anti poison I think would be necessary.

Another option is to coordinate your run with someone else and summon them for help.

@Randel: Can you list everything you can remember about your runs and attempts to kill the dragon? And any additional information (such as other players on the fourm that have attempted the same thing)?

Can anyone involved in a Run please post up what you did? Combing through the other monster thread is a real pain...

Please post:
what you did for sure
what you're fairly certain you did
any unknowns

Order that you did it matters, so post that as well.

No problem, having to get to painted world on a low lvl character for a tournament at the mome t though. Let me get that and I'll detail what I remember.