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The State of the World

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Post n°1

The State of the World

Post by Reaperfan Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:38 pm

Not sure how to start this, so I'll just come out and say that I miss the serious-minded kind of discussion that went on in the Gender Issues threads. However, I also acknowledge those threads had their problems and were better off going the way they did. This is my attempt to try and bring back some of that bigger kind of discussion, and hopefully broadening the range of topics will allow for more free discussion and better participation, preventing derailing and allowing anyone to talk about what they find most pressing or are most passionate about.

So politics, the media, societal problems, economies, gender issues, etc. Anything and everything that has to do with what you observe about the world and how you view the state of modern human society and culture and our future is open for discussion here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll start off small and light with a "video and reactions" kind of thing and see where it goes. An Escapist webseries called The Jimquisition recently had an episode where the titular host researched female protagonists throughout video game history looking for a truly unique female character. What do you all think of his approach, the criteria he used, the example he decided to go with, and the implications/conclusions he drew? Is there anything else you could think of to add to what he did? Do you think he was wrong on some points? And so on. Lemme hear your thoughts happy

happy

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Post n°2

Re: The State of the World

Post by Carphil Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:36 pm

lol, if he is actually serious with that, it makes me a little bit sad

from what he concluded the "woman" must be a protagonist without the stereotypes that everyone knows, so the dinossaur its the perfect example because she is a godess, strong, has no inspiration on man and its not just a pretty body? correct me if i'm wrong

Its a very interesting choice, but I'd pick at least someone human/with human emotions or thoughts, so things gets a little bit more close to reality. Unless theres absolutely no one, human, like that dinossaur in video game history

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Post n°3

Re: The State of the World

Post by Reaperfan Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:43 pm

Carphil wrote:lol, if he is actually serious with that, it makes me a little bit sad

from what he concluded the "woman" must be a protagonist without the stereotypes that everyone knows, so the dinossaur its the perfect example because she is a godess, strong, has no inspiration on man and its not just a pretty body? correct me if i'm wrong

Its a very interesting choice, but I'd pick at least someone human/with human emotions or thoughts, so things gets a little bit more close to reality. Unless theres absolutely no one, human, like that dinossaur in video game history

I think that was part of his point. Every "human" female protagonist, even the ones widely revered for their character, fail his "not conventionally attractive" requirement. I know I personally can't think of a human female lead in video games who wasn't attractive, and that's kind of limiting.

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Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:11 pm

Primal had a protagonist possibly considered not "conventionally" attractive. Don't get me wrong, she was likely meant to be attractive just not conventionally so. Beyond Good and Evil got press for the same reason actually. The not conventionally pretty lead.

Metroid had the best shot of all time in my opinion as most players had zero clue it was a female lead until it was pointed out to them. Then they ruined it with the speed run bikini Easter egg

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Post n°5

Re: The State of the World

Post by Reaperfan Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:41 pm

skarekrow13 wrote:Primal had a protagonist possibly considered not "conventionally" attractive. Don't get me wrong, she was likely meant to be attractive just not conventionally so. Beyond Good and Evil got press for the same reason actually. The not conventionally pretty lead.

Metroid had the best shot of all time in my opinion as most players had zero clue it was a female lead until it was pointed out to them. Then they ruined it with the speed run bikini Easter egg

I'll preface this comment by stating that I'm just putting words into the host's mouth and saying what I think he was trying to say, but I think with that criteria he more meant "would not be considered physically attractive by average human standards." As implied by his mentioning of unattractive men, I think his use of that criteria was more meant to be asking "where are the unattractive female protagonists?"

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Post n°6

Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:45 pm

I'm sure that's what he meant. Beyond Good and Evil is probably the best example (I can think of off the top of my head). The point is clear anyway. Even if we can find an example, the time it would take and the effort to get there just proves how rare the unattractive female character is.

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Post n°7

Re: The State of the World

Post by Hugh_G_Johnson Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:18 am

The comparison of attractiveness between male and female leads is misguided. In an effort to maintain equality of sexes people fall into the trap of looking at men and women as the same and expecting them to be the same. Equal does not equal same. In other words; men and women are different! And it's ok! Different doesn't mean one is better or worse. With that said; I think all people need to realize that we're all humans. One's gender is just a random expression of certain genes.

If you want to compare male and female leads; compare masculinity to femininity. Look at a male character's masculine features: height, musculature, voice tone (deep), leadership skills, posture, sense of humor, intellect, resourcefulness, lack of emotions, logical, etc. Then compare that to a female leads overall attractiveness, hair length, hip to waist ratio, bust, voice tone (high), warm, caring, nurturing, emotional, etc. I suspect that the male leads are similarly over-the-top masculine as the female leads are over-the-top feminine.

Most female leads already have some masculine traits. That's understandable since as a lead character you must achieve and conquer; typically masculine pursuits. Why must they also be ugly? Why bother with a female character if you're just going to make her masculine? Why would that be good? What's wrong with being feminine? I think making female characters more masculine is counter-productive. It has the implication that being masculine is better than being feminine.

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Post n°8

Re: The State of the World

Post by Elifia Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:32 am

Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:The comparison of attractiveness between male and female leads is misguided. In an effort to maintain equality of sexes people fall into the trap of looking at men and women as the same and expecting them to be the same. Equal does not equal same. In other words; men and women are different! And it's ok! Different doesn't mean one is better or worse. With that said; I think all people need to realize that we're all humans. One's gender is just a random expression of certain genes.

If you want to compare male and female leads; compare masculinity to femininity. Look at a male character's masculine features: height, musculature, voice tone (deep), leadership skills, posture, sense of humor, intellect, resourcefulness, lack of emotions, logical, etc. Then compare that to a female leads overall attractiveness, hair length, hip to waist ratio, bust, voice tone (high), warm, caring, nurturing, emotional, etc. I suspect that the male leads are similarly over-the-top masculine as the female leads are over-the-top feminine.

Most female leads already have some masculine traits. That's understandable since as a lead character you must achieve and conquer; typically masculine pursuits. Why must they also be ugly? Why bother with a female character if you're just going to make her masculine? Why would that be good? What's wrong with being feminine? I think making female characters more masculine is counter-productive. It has the implication that being masculine is better than being feminine.

The problem is that you define 'masculine' as strong, intelligent, funny and being a leader, while you define 'feminine' as sexy and kind. In this case, yes, I would consider 'masculine' to be better. But the vast majority of those traits has nothing to do with masculinity/femininity. A woman who is intelligent, funny or a good leader is not suddenly 'masculine'. Likewise, a man can be caring or nurturing without being 'feminine', because those traits can be considered paternal instincts as well.

Also, physical attractiveness is not related to masculinity/femininity. If you're not attractive that's far more likely to be related to being fat or old, or having a disfigured face.
I even stumbled across a rendering of a very attractive, yet very masculine woman, earlier today. Note, the naughty bits are covered but it's still kinda NSFW. Behold.

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Post n°9

Re: The State of the World

Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:41 am

I don't think that woman you linked is all that attractive, Eli. I mean she looks like she would be if she weren't so darn ripped.

Does that make me sexist? If it does let me know because I don't want to come off as such.

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Post n°10

Re: The State of the World

Post by Elifia Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:49 am

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I don't think that woman you linked is all that attractive, Eli. I mean she looks like she would be if she weren't so darn ripped.

Does that make me sexist? If it does let me know because I don't want to come off as such.

Nah, it's just your personal preferences I guess. I often enough see people who I know are attractive, despite not finding them very attractive myself.

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Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:07 am

Hugh, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being attractive. I do want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Elifia and say that most of the traits you mentioned aren't actually tied to genetic or biological expressions of gender. For example, Lara Croft is in no way masculine for being strong enough and accurate enough to use two fully automatic weapons at one time. Hillary Clinton is similarly not masculine because she's perceived as a take charge leader who is fearless about expressing her opinion. I also don't consider myself to be feminine because I insist on kissing my daughter on the cheek and telling her I love her every time I put her in her car seat.

The issue, and I know this has led to an argument before (not saying anyone has even hinted at that tone here yet but felt it needed the disclaimer), is that over the top males are part of a male fantasy too. The lead character is generally someone who is supposed to fulfill the player's desire or fantasy in the immersion of the world. Basically, there has to be something to love to keep you involved in their journey. If you follow my game reviews on Fextralife (shameless plug) my next edition will feature a game I put down solely because I thought the lead is an ***hole. Getting back to the point, an over the top "masculine" character is defined pretty much how Hugh put it. This is typically recognized as desirable for male players as the "I'd like to be this" archetype. Most of us were raised to look up to powerful figures so Kratos, literally any male from Gears of War, etc. are supposed to evoke the feeling of "Aw man, it'd be AWESOME to be like this guy." However, with female leads (in a stereotypical "male" world like video games) the idea is pretty much never to get the player to say "Aw man, it'd be AWESOME to be like this woman." The gripe is that attractiveness is used in most cases to COVER UP the desirable traits. How awesome would your life be if you were more like Lara Croft or Samus Aran? Now compare that awesomeness to Nathan Drake's or Mega Man's fictional lives. On the surface they SHOULD be near identical fantasies. Go around kicking some rear. Lara and Nathan are pretty much the same character in my opinion.

Now then, we should examine two things:
-First, ask yourself honestly, do you approach these games the same way? Do you feel the same way about the characters? Me personally, I've never once considered the tightness of Nathan Drake's pants or thought to myself, "his buns look pretty good while those guns are blazing." Being completely honest again, I admit I'm not above liking the short shorts on Lara Croft. It takes some effort for me to realize on a cognitive level that Nathan is far more prepared for running, jumping and falling on rocks without causing some pretty awful abrasions during the course of the game. She's nice to look at so who cares about a scraped knee right?
-Second, why is it that the developer for Uncharted hasn't seen fit to "leak" a code claiming to make Nathan nude? Because Lara Croft had that happen. Now I know the actual code didn't actually make her naked but that clever ploy pandered to the "this character is sexy" idea to create a "controversy" regarding her sexuality to bring more attention to the game (and make more sales I'm sure). In a similar vein, where's the JUSTIN BAILEY code for Mega Man? Wouldn't it be great to see him run around shooting other robots in a speedo? Samus can be just as effective in a bathing suit as armor so why not him?

So my overall point is not that it's a problem that women are attractive. The real issues for me are that there is very little variety to the theme and that sexuality (like I said above) is used as a distracting element for females. Are some men exaggerated and theoretically "equal" in this regard. Absolutely. Nathan Drake is conventionally handsome. A lot of male leads are. But how attractive is the main in Overlord? Who the hell knows. He wears a helmet the whole time. The "scary guy in the shadows" is a common male lead. I would like to point out that it's my understanding that this is not really a female fantasy most of the time. What about Mario? A chubby, big nosed guy with a crazy mustache. Yeah, he's funny but he's not a stud by most standards. There's more like him. So male leads have variety too.

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Post n°12

Re: The State of the World

Post by Reaperfan Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Your post makes me think there, Skare, mostly on that bit about the description of the main from Overlord in that it expresses "male fantasy" as having multiple outlets. Since I'm not female I can't even begin to speculate what "female fantasy" entails but it makes me wonder; what kind of "fantasies" might women want to experience from their lead characters? What outlets could people be looking for that could still appeal to a feminine outlook but circumvents things like forced attractiveness or stereotypes?

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Post n°13

Re: The State of the World

Post by Hugh_G_Johnson Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:43 pm

Elifia wrote:The problem is that you define 'masculine' as strong, intelligent, funny and being a leader, while you define 'feminine' as sexy and kind. In this case, yes, I would consider 'masculine' to be better. But the vast majority of those traits has nothing to do with masculinity/femininity. A woman who is intelligent, funny or a good leader is not suddenly 'masculine'. Likewise, a man can be caring or nurturing without being 'feminine', because those traits can be considered paternal instincts as well.

Also, physical attractiveness is not related to masculinity/femininity. If you're not attractive that's far more likely to be related to being fat or old, or having a disfigured face.
I even stumbled across a rendering of a very attractive, yet very masculine woman, earlier today. Note, the naughty bits are covered but it's still kinda NSFW. Behold.

I should have included intelligence for women too. Food for thought concerning gender and intelligence.

I would also add confidence to masculinity. There are more things I could add to either list I sure as well. And I would contend that they are traits relating to masculinity and femininity. Physical attractiveness is simply valued more as a female trait. A man can be good looking, but he is apt to be called a pretty boy -- diminishing his masculinity and implying he's more feminine. Personally; I value masculine traits in men and I'm repulsed by them in women. That's not to say I don't like strong women who can be assertive when needed, but buff women (I do not find that muscular woman in the link you posted attractive in the least) and domineering women are a major turn off to me. I know I'm not alone in that either. I would compare it to women saying they like sensitive guys; most say that because they're attracted to very masculine men (who are rarely sensitive, naturally). They would never be attracted to an outright sensitive man. What they really want is a masculine but well-rounded man who can be sensitive on occasion when appropriate.

Unfortunately, science directly opposes your assertion that nurturing men are no less masculine (link). And since testosterone increases assertiveness and aggression among other things, I don't think it's a stretch to say women who display these characteristics in leadership are at least more masculine. Please don't take that out of context. For instance; I would say Hillary Clinton is more masculine than feminine. However, Oprah is extremely feminine; she hosted a talk show where she displayed numerous feminine traits (communication skills, empathy, compassion) on a show that was geared towards women thus frequently dealt with subjects that appealed to women... yet, she clearly kicks butt on the business front. So I am not at all saying that one must be masculine to succeed or lead.

Depending on what you think of Oprah's looks it may say something about femininity and appearance as well. But, looks are a trait of primary importance for a woman. For a man they are secondary. A man will often convince himself that a woman he finds physically attractive has better personality traits that she really does. Conversely a woman will often convince herself that a man she likes is better looking that he really is. Asking for a unattractive female lead would be like asking for a feeble, incompetent, nervous and unsure male lead.

@Skare; you're a straight man... there's no reason you'd be turned on by a guy. And if you were a woman perhaps you'd be turned on by a guy who travels the world, solving puzzles, kicking butt, ignoring pain, soldiering on, hunting treasure -- while looking 'ruggedly handsome' and cracking jokes. Women don't operate the same way as men. Men look at pictures, women read romance novels.

Sexuality is a distraction, just like in real life. How likely are you to get cracked over the head in a cut-scene by a femme fatale and lose all the cool gear you just spent 6 hours accumulating while playing as a female character?* Happens all the time as a man and nobody really objects.

Also; I think if you really want to break down Mario it paints an unflattering picture of men and women. The proverbial carrot dangling in front of Mario (the jackass) is a helpless, beautiful, young, virginal damsel in distress. Mario the fat, ugly guy drops everything from his life as a guy doing a dirty job fixing stuff for an hourly wage to risk life and limb to rescue the princess. Mario is just some poor schmuck, who of course is expected to risk is life for some stranger just for the hint of a chance at landing a beautiful woman -- that he couldn't do without proving himself worthy of her by journeying far, jumping through a bunch of hoops and risking death countless times along the way. Meanwhile; the princess is just a princess -- that's what she is and that's what she does. She's utterly helpless and is utterly dependent on a man to save her from her kidnapper/captor. Doesn't say much for her or him.

Long story short; I think there are negative gender stereotypes for both genders. I think boys should be boys and girls should be girls. But, I also think everyone should try to be well-rounded.

*One more reason why Alucard is the best. He is totally unfazed by Maria, sees through the Succubus and slays her without a second thought or remorse. And in the end Maria chases him!

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Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:53 pm

First off I wanna say that I can't ask for a more rational and calm approach to a disagreement. So a lotta respect Hugh.

I have a degree in psychology so the science part of things isn't foreign to me. That's an interesting article regarding the testosterone drop and yeah that chemical is often tied to the generally depicted as male traits of assertiveness and aggression. However, personality is widely accepted to be one of the most permanent human traits from childhood to death. Barring a catastrophic event or trauma or a tremendous imbalance chemically (depression for instance or steroid use in extreme cases) personality is fixed. So while the article provides support (one study is never proof) that testosterone dips after fatherhood it's not enough to come close to say that nurturing fathers are less masculine. I could also add a pretty significant confound to that particular study that I don't see addressed.

But really it comes down to the core of what we really are discussing. I haven't seen any compelling evidence to say that the traits you mentioned are indeed inherently masculine. The point myself and others like me try to make is that the pressure from society is a significant reason men are one way and women another. By effectively having a culture that states "men are assertive and strong" and "women are pretty and nurturing" and reinforcing it almost constantly it doesn't allow for the development of variety. By having such a culture women who are aggressive are shunned. Pretty boys get similar treatment.

So here's where I actually see the problem. First a disclaimer though. There are absolutely biological and chemical differences between genders speaking on a global level. Does this lead to different traits? I don't see how it couldn't.

To some degree. That's the issue. At most, these would lead to predispositions toward certain traits like how my family genetics predispose me toward heart disease.

My problem is that we can't actually say what real differences biology dictates due to societal pressure to conform. Think of your Bell curves. In a normal distribution there would be some men closer in biology to women or if we just take traits in general there would be some men who have traits that you've defined as feminine. Going from a biology standpoint both ideas should correlate directly but in reality we'd expect that to be separate but similar ideas. Anyway, what I'm getting to is that there are some men who, naturally mind you, are going to have traits thought of as "feminine." In my world, these men get a ton of crap, pushing them to be different than biology and predisposition dictates. The same holds true for women obviously. If you're not "feminine enough" there's hell to pay by and large. So that's my gripe. I don't expect everyone to be the same and biology states most people will have differences but gender stereotypes limit the variety we should expect.

EDITED for clarification

Last edited by skarekrow13 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Soul of Stray Demon

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Post n°15

Re: The State of the World

Post by Soul of Stray Demon Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:59 pm

Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:Also; I think if you really want to break down Mario it paints an unflattering picture of men and women. The proverbial carrot dangling in front of Mario (the jackass) is a helpless, beautiful, young, virginal damsel in distress. Mario the fat, ugly guy drops everything from his life as a guy doing a dirty job fixing stuff for an hourly wage to risk life and limb to rescue the princess. Mario is just some poor schmuck, who of course is expected to risk is life for some stranger just for the hint of a chance at landing a beautiful woman -- that he couldn't do without proving himself worthy of her by journeying far, jumping through a bunch of hoops and risking death countless times along the way. Meanwhile; the princess is just a princess -- that's what she is and that's what she does. She's utterly helpless and is utterly dependent on a man to save her from her kidnapper/captor. Doesn't say much for her or him.

Long story short; I think there are negative gender stereotypes for both genders. I think boys should be boys and girls should be girls. But, I also think everyone should try to be well-rounded.

On the term of Mario..

This should explain everything.... EVERYTHING.

Sadly, I don't think I can explain much more past what he explains... So just watch it.

And for the boys be boys, girls be girls thing... I think everyone should be themselves. We shouldn't have to worry about, boy or girl. It doesn't matter.

Last edited by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post n°16

Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:00 pm

Forgot to mention, Alucard is kicka**

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Post n°17

Re: The State of the World

Post by Carphil Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:04 pm

skarekrow13 wrote:Forgot to mention, Alucard is kicka**

He's Tarkus older brother

I'll post my opinion based on the recent posts, only later. (phone)

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Post n°18

Re: The State of the World

Post by skarekrow13 Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:12 pm

That text wall was no problem on my cell. Pfft...

*Ok it was a huge pain

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Post n°19

Re: The State of the World

Post by Soul of Stray Demon Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:28 pm

skarekrow13 wrote:That text wall was no problem on my cell. Pfft...

*Ok it was a huge pain

I changed it... unless you aren't referring to me... Whatever..

Somewhat On topic. (

I think the fact that it is even possible to have a discussion about this topic (Gender differences and how such is being treated by media) is kinda wrong (that this is possible, not the actual discussion)

If everyone is (should be) equal, and everyone (should) treat everybody else with respect, then why should such a discussion even cause drama.

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Post n°20

Re: The State of the World

Post by Carphil Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:That text wall was no problem on my cell. Pfft...

*Ok it was a huge pain

I changed it... unless you aren't referring to me... Whatever..

Somewhat On topic. (

I think the fact that it is even possible to have a discussion about this topic (Gender differences and how such is being treated by media) is kinda wrong (that this is possible, not the actual discussion)

If everyone is (should be) equal, and everyone (should) treat everybody else with respect, then why should such a discussion even cause drama.

Because we are all here to share and receive new information. To post a topic and see different opinions. Discussions are very important for our society and I believe this community does a great job, where in most other places you would find only rage comments and fights. I'm glad to be able to discuss and read as many subjects as possible, it makes me smarter and I can learn other people cultures.

Of course there is some drama, humans have emotions and everyone reacts differently to certain topics, but I'm far from worried that it will cause any trouble

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Post n°21

Re: The State of the World

Post by Soul of Stray Demon Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:27 pm

Carphil wrote:

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:That text wall was no problem on my cell. Pfft...

*Ok it was a huge pain

I changed it... unless you aren't referring to me... Whatever..

Somewhat On topic. (

I think the fact that it is even possible to have a discussion about this topic (Gender differences and how such is being treated by media) is kinda wrong (that this is possible, not the actual discussion)

If everyone is (should be) equal, and everyone (should) treat everybody else with respect, then why should such a discussion even cause drama.

Because we are all here to share and receive new information. To post a topic and see different opinions. Discussions are very important for our society and I believe this community does a great job, where in most other places you would find only rage comments and fights. I'm glad to be able to discuss and read as many subjects as possible, it makes me smarter and I can learn other people cultures.

Of course there is some drama, humans have emotions and everyone reacts differently to certain topics, but I'm far from worried that it will cause any trouble

I said that the discussion is fine.. I'm saying that the reason we can have such a discussion (in a non-hypothetical manner) is saddening.

I'm perfectly fine with the discussion and am hopeful of any positive outcomes of such.

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Post n°22

Re: The State of the World

Post by Carphil Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:

Carphil wrote:

Soul of Stray Demon wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:That text wall was no problem on my cell. Pfft...

*Ok it was a huge pain

I changed it... unless you aren't referring to me... Whatever..

Somewhat On topic. (

I think the fact that it is even possible to have a discussion about this topic (Gender differences and how such is being treated by media) is kinda wrong (that this is possible, not the actual discussion)

If everyone is (should be) equal, and everyone (should) treat everybody else with respect, then why should such a discussion even cause drama.

Because we are all here to share and receive new information. To post a topic and see different opinions. Discussions are very important for our society and I believe this community does a great job, where in most other places you would find only rage comments and fights. I'm glad to be able to discuss and read as many subjects as possible, it makes me smarter and I can learn other people cultures.

Of course there is some drama, humans have emotions and everyone reacts differently to certain topics, but I'm far from worried that it will cause any trouble

I said that the discussion is fine.. I'm saying that the reason we can have such a discussion (in a non-hypothetical manner) is saddening.

I'm perfectly fine with the discussion and am hopeful of any positive outcomes of such.

Forgive me. The "is kinda wrong" confused me Sleep

Sleep

Its a tough subject, but nowadays there are so many things that could be considered wrong to discuss, that I'm kind of used right now. I wouldn't be sad, but I wouldn't judge anyone for being sad either, its fine compeltely fine to express emotions, and important too

Reaperfan: Compulsory Poster; Posts : 3008
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Post n°23

Re: The State of the World

Post by Reaperfan Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:42 pm

So as someone who doesn't keep up with politics much, can anyone here who does follow American political stuff explain what all is going on with this "government shutdown" thing?

SirArchmage: Insomniac; Posts : 1146
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Post n°24

Re: The State of the World

Post by SirArchmage Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:03 pm

The government isn't working, so we are trying to turn it off and on again and see if that works.

Though really it is that the Republicans in Congress are trying to make sure Obamacare(a national healthcare thing) keeps getting delayed. They tried lobbying against it and lost, so this is what is happening. The whole thing is kind of ridiculous.

Soul of Stray Demon

Soul of Stray Demon: Revived; Posts : 2424
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Post n°25

Re: The State of the World

Post by Soul of Stray Demon Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:59 pm

SirArchmage wrote:The government isn't working, so we are trying to turn it off and on again and see if that works.

Though really it is that the Republicans in Congress are trying to make sure Obamacare(a national healthcare thing) keeps getting delayed. They tried lobbying against it and lost, so this is what is happening. The whole thing is kind of ridiculous.

Actually Obamacare had already passed, this is just the republicans throwing a fit, (No seriously, this pretty much is like's a child temper tantrum.)

I saw something from the republican side about how Obama refuses to negotiate about obamacare... when really what he said is that he refuses to negotiate with anyone who is willing to shut down our government just to get their way.

I don't consider myself Republican or Democrat, but I can't help seeing this as being similar to terrorism. (The Republicans are shutting down the government to get what they want,.... which is well, what terrorists would want to be able to do.) Even in my attempt to stay impartial... I just can't see how the republicans can say they are in the right.

But I digress. Government is messed up, people want things to work perfectly so when they don't, they all whine about it like it's everyone else's fault..
(I have a feeling this may come across different then how I mean it)

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Re: The State of the World

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