The God of War

I also came to the conclusion that Andre is Gwyns first born but I believe this because I think Andre is Sir Artorias.
Here are some of my reasons;
1. Obviously he holds the Crest of Artorias.
I think he is holding onto the crest and selling it for a higher price of souls more to test undead and see if they can handle the task of making it to his grave and defeating sif. in it's item description it states " Many adventurers have left for the grave, but none have returned, for they make easy prey for local bandits. With such dangers, the crest can do more harm than good in the hands of the uninitiated."
2. He gives no insight to his past and only refers to himself as just an old smith.
3. Alvina tries to tell you the legend of Artorias is false although her and her covenant are the protectors of the forest graves.
4. Andrei says he knows little of Darkroot other than the divine blacksmith (possibly his mentor because he also uses divine embers) and that it houses the grave of Sir Artorias. He then continues to comment "Only, of those who ventured into the forest no one has returned...." Which furthers me to believe he has been watching over the entrance for some time and is now using the crest to test undead rather then let them charge into the slaughter.
5. Ingward, who is also out to test you by having you defeat a darkwraith (darkwraiths being the enemy's of Artorias) knows Artorias is still alive and tells you to seek him out and learn from him.
6. Going back to the crest, I believe it was created by Artorias' buddy Ingward because of the other part of the items description; "This crest opens a door in the Darkroot Garden sealed by ancient magic." with Ingward of course being the last great sealer.
7. It is said that Artorias entered the abyss and while there something transpired that caused Artorias to betray lord Gwyn and aid the four kings which would explain his sons fall from grace.

I definitely think the background and more in depth aspects of Andre were taken out to leave it as more of a mystery and will probably be shown to us in later DLC.

Firslty Welcome to the forums!

However your arguments do not prove Artorias is Andre, especially since we will fight Artorias in the DLC, presumably killing him. Andre's build is also more muscular than his, and he retains the use of his left arm.
1) We dont know why he holds the crest, but its expensive so low level players dont buy it and go fight Sif too early, because the forest NPCs let alone Sif are tough fights at low levels.
2) Very few NPCs do give insight into their past life.
3) Alvina is a friend of Artorias and Sif and doesnt want Sif hurt or Artorias's grave pillaged. Its also theorised the FH act as a testing ground, only allowing those who prove themselves strong of mind and body thorugh.
4) The fact there are 3 other stoned blacksmiths means they could be connected somehow. however as holder of the crest and with his position near the forest Andre would have seen many adventurers fail in their quests into the forest.
5) Ingward does not know Artorias is still alive. He only knows he was alive when he took up his duty as sealer. Being stuck up there alone in twilight means he has little concept of time and is also isolated from the world. He wouldnt know if Artorias had perished or not.
6) The coincidence of two words isnt enough proof for that sort of connection.
7) Hi son fell from grace for extinguishing the first flame and losing the annals, not falling to the dark.

Sorry if tat sounds a bit harsh shooting down your idea but its best if you know the facts. Feel free to debate them with me though.

Well I don't think you shot down my ideas. More or less gave your own opinion of why you think I am wrong.

-Well when it comes to dark souls they aren't really for holding lower lvl players back, your open to run around and get your *** kicked in areas you aren't ready for at all times. especially if you started with the master key. so why make this area cost souls?
-Some do, some don't. Not a valid point but more just leaving it open for speculation.
-It's the fact that she tries to downplay his legend that makes it seem suspicious to me. Rather then telling the player to straight up avoid it because of a guardian who killed all before them and it is her friends grave site.
-That's a thought.
-Just going on my theory that Ingward the last known sealer and Artorias are still connected. Ingward created the seal that keeps the entrance to his gravesite closed, which would mean they would of had to meet up after his grave was put there and many undead had died.
-Not proof but if the door is sealed by ancient magic and he is the only ancient sealer around it just seems to fit.
-Well everything that happened in the abyss is unknown but the end result of him betraying Gwyn and presumably being killed by one of Gwyn's followers then buried in darkroots garden is what i was looking at. If this were to happen though I would think Ingward would have insight on this since it should of happened before the four kings were sealed.

One main issue is the two have completely different bone structures. I don't mean just, Andre is more muscular. Look at their hips, their shoulders, the size of their skulls and hands. Andre is massive, like a hulk. Artorias is more so thin, and toned. Now technically, this is something we'll have to wait until the DLC to really get into. But bone structure alone kind of makes it highly unlikely.

I'm still officially crossing my fingers that they're trolling us and that the being shown is an Abyss Guardian (not looking good for me I know but I want Artorias to be completely new when I face him). However I gotta agree that I'm thinking Andre is unlikely to be Artorias. I posted a few text walls and think the connection fits better that the danger to uninitiated is to those not initiated into the forest hunter covenant. Once you're in the covenant there's literally zero danger opening that door and just strutting your smooth self over to Sif. I think this fits better than the cost being the initiation. Also, initiation implies ceremony or rite which Alvina conducts while purchasing things from Andre doesn't. I recall wanting this crest SOOOOO badly but the cost was prohibitive. By the time I could afford it I had actually (painstakingly) explored the whole forest already. I had ran past the hydra with the rusted ring (a few times thanks to dying and all that) to enter the forest. In hindsight, after all this, my opinion was that collecting 20k is actually the EASY way into the forest.

Where do you see Artorias pictured, do you know that it is actually him? Well muscularity can change over the long time he has been working as a blacksmith. Now he would also more closely relate to Gwyn as well.

The Cover for the Prepare to Die edition and the Trailer had an individual believed to be Artorias. I don't know if anyone has proven it's Artorias actually. I was directed to the big book of art once when I asked the same question but since I couldn't read Japanese (assuming it said it was him anyway) it just showed me the picture I'd already seen. I went on record when the picture was first released as it being the "Abyss Guard" they're hyping a good deal along with the game.

Here's the pics...
Cover pic

DLC Screenshot

Concept Art

The concept art sword looks similar to the one we get of his in game, but the one used for the cover of the Prepare to Die edition is definitely a new sword.

Here's the official trailer too. The sword definitely looks like his in this.

trailer

Ya that is Artorias but the DLC does take place 300 years before the main game so that's enough time to get buff.

Or haunt nothing

Muscle mass is different from bone mass. It is one thing for his arms to get wider, but shoulders, skull size, hand size, hip length. No amount of working out would change him that much.

Maybe he has consumed humanity since then?
my body mass changes a lot when I do.

... That I'd not how the humanity thing works; it gives flesh back, nothing else.

Not even bone.

I'm not saying technically impossible, because this is dark souls after all. But look at the physical build of those two characters, unless Artorias is a young teenager, that sort of change in how their bodies are structured just seems a bit out there.

I gotta back Tolvo on that. The skeleton doesn't change easily

you are comparing the new art of Artorias to Andre right?
They are both taller then a normal human. The only thing added over time was mass.
Why so hung up on a skeletal structure of this suit of armor?

Because you can alter say bicep size but not shoulder width.

Now I am angry at the past fact that people said that I was wrong about the god of war being the blacksmith deity, yet say that Andre is the god of war...

Ugh.

what if... orenstine is the first born? dun dun dun!!! (not likely)

Ya, that's an old one I fought against

Aries.

Funny. It's Ares.

+1

I'm sorry people told you that you were wrong Acidic, But they are doing the same thing to me so why be angry?
I guess you guys have dis-proven everyone that thinks Solaire is the first born since his "bone structure" is different as well.

I don't think Solaire has been proven one way or the other. I personally believe Andre is mainly because he looks a lot like the broken statue

The difference is that they associate associate a blacksmith to be a God of War, and not recognize the quality of the Blacksmith Deity and his relationship with the God of War (Search for lore No. 30 I think). They see Andre as a good candidate to be the God of War, however they have not associated that the God of War and the Blacksmith Deity, which in every respect in Lordran share qualities of lost annals (recordings), the titanite and the strength of the arm they have (and even the quality of the gods, lightning), the philosophy of Blacksmith (strength in the arm to create superb weaponry, weapons of war, and a superb build of the form), and other things I can't really remember exactly in my sleep deprived brain.

The difference is that they are arguing structure of bones to differentiate characters in general and giving a debate, while they just dismiss mine without full on debate.

Correction, no. 29; 30 is seigmeyer.

I also like the negative. Care to explain?