The Search for Lore

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    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:01 am

    Hi Acid glad to see you back. I didn't understand what you said about summoning Solaire and Lautrec in Blighttown...


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    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:41 am

    I think he was saying you can have the blighttown firekeeper soul, ring the 2nd bell and still be able to summon lautrec and Solaire in the parish.


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    Post by User on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:58 am

    No, you dint ring the second bell. You can kill the spider lady without Lautrec disappearing and killing ash maiden
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    Post by Shkar on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:20 am

    I have a bit of information that I haven't seen you use, although you probably already know it:

    The ring of the firstborn claims that "Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status."

    Now, I personally figured that, since annals are historical records, it meant that the firstborn's failure (or whatever he did to cause that event to happen) is the reason that the timeline is messed up (although the only evidence I see for that is Solaire saying so and the fact that NPC's manage to into areas without you noticing them).

    Perhaps you can make some light of this, or can direct me to a post where you did so?


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    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:21 am

    Oh yeah, not sure if this was ever pointed out before, but the Great Lord's Chest plate looks like a glutton dragon/primordial serpent, just thought I'd throw that out there.
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    Post by Yukon on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am

    Something that has been bugging me for quite a while since my newest character is Oswald saying "When thou art in need of humanity, thou shalt be welcome. I always have an ear for confession. Heh heh heh heh..."

    It's started a development in my interest for this character, is there an easy way to locate the lore you have developed on him? I couldn't see anything related to his wiki page, and he is carrying so much of velka's things.. not to mention being from carim,like lautric... NOT to mention calling you a friend if you join petrus's covenant, which makes me raise an eyebrow to all the cleric items found right next to petrus and his freaky shift in dialoge after returning from the catacombs.

    I'm not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but this thread is so large and cumbersome I don't really know where to look or where to start looking.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:56 am

    Yukon wrote:Something that has been bugging me for quite a while since my newest character is Oswald saying "When thou art in need of humanity, thou shalt be welcome. I always have an ear for confession. Heh heh heh heh..."

    It's started a development in my interest for this character, is there an easy way to locate the lore you have developed on him? I couldn't see anything related to his wiki page, and he is carrying so much of velka's things.. not to mention being from carim,like lautric... NOT to mention calling you a friend if you join petrus's covenant, which makes me raise an eyebrow to all the cleric items found right next to petrus and his freaky shift in dialoge after returning from the catacombs.

    I'm not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but this thread is so large and cumbersome I don't really know where to look or where to start looking.

    On the quote I think the idea is that if you need humanity you can kill an NPC for it then atone your sin of killing said NPC for humanity with him. He's carrying Velka's things because he is a pardoner of Velka, which is probably a sub group of the WoW in Carim because that is where Velka would most probably be. Not sure what you mean about his dialogue. Are you just talking about when he talks about his lady slipping and falling? Or are you confusing this shift with what happens after you pay Lautrec for information? Finally on the items dont forget you get the cracked red eye orbs there so you have to factor in why they are there.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:03 am

    Shkar wrote:I have a bit of information that I haven't seen you use, although you probably already know it:

    The ring of the firstborn claims that "Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status."

    Now, I personally figured that, since annals are historical records, it meant that the firstborn's failure (or whatever he did to cause that event to happen) is the reason that the timeline is messed up (although the only evidence I see for that is Solaire saying so and the fact that NPC's manage to into areas without you noticing them).

    Perhaps you can make some light of this, or can direct me to a post where you did so?

    Sorry but I disagree with your opinion. I believe the loss of annals was just that, a loss of the annals. Th flow of time is ONLY distorted in Lordran. Not everywhere in the world. There are explanations of how NPC's get into the areas they do with the exception of Siegemeyer into lost izalith. It does bring up the fact that because it says "rescinded" the god of war didnt lose his status from what he did, but it was taken from him after he did what he did.
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    Post by Shkar on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:39 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:
    Shkar wrote:I have a bit of information that I haven't seen you use, although you probably already know it:

    The ring of the firstborn claims that "Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status."

    Now, I personally figured that, since annals are historical records, it meant that the firstborn's failure (or whatever he did to cause that event to happen) is the reason that the timeline is messed up (although the only evidence I see for that is Solaire saying so and the fact that NPC's manage to into areas without you noticing them).

    Perhaps you can make some light of this, or can direct me to a post where you did so?

    Sorry but I disagree with your opinion. I believe the loss of annals was just that, a loss of the annals. Th flow of time is ONLY distorted in Lordran. Not everywhere in the world. There are explanations of how NPC's get into the areas they do with the exception of Siegemeyer into lost izalith. It does bring up the fact that because it says "rescinded" the god of war didnt lose his status from what he did, but it was taken from him after he did what he did.

    If we take the statement is taken as literal, then why would he lose his deity status? "It's ok, we can remake that history book. No worries." Unless it had some far reaching consequences, it really doesn't make sense for him to be punished by stripping away his divinity.

    Also, if their is an accepted theory as to how the various NPC's sneak their way around, what evidence is there to support Solaire's statement that time is jumbled?
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    Post by Gol on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:04 pm

    Gwyn's firstborn is responsible for what happened in the archives, that's what the ring says, the "time distortion" is not his fault, it all started because of the flame.
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    Post by Shkar on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:25 pm

    Gol wrote:Gwyn's firstborn is responsible for what happened in the archives, that's what the ring says, the "time distortion" is not his fault, it all started because of the flame.

    While that may be true, and I don't know enough about the time aspect to truly argue that, the ring says nothing of the archives. The annals could be a book, stone slab, tapestry, or anything that could be used to record history. Or, as I had thought at first, it could simply refer to the linear flow of time.

    It could even simply refer to losing PART of the annals causing the pygmy to be forgotten. I will leave the analysis and how it all fits in to acidic, since he seems to be the best at analyzing the game lore.

    That being said, I AM curious as to what you mean by "what happened in the archives". Would you mind explaining that to me?
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    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:45 am

    Shkar wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:
    Shkar wrote:I have a bit of information that I haven't seen you use, although you probably already know it:

    The ring of the firstborn claims that "Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status."

    Now, I personally figured that, since annals are historical records, it meant that the firstborn's failure (or whatever he did to cause that event to happen) is the reason that the timeline is messed up (although the only evidence I see for that is Solaire saying so and the fact that NPC's manage to into areas without you noticing them).

    Perhaps you can make some light of this, or can direct me to a post where you did so?

    Sorry but I disagree with your opinion. I believe the loss of annals was just that, a loss of the annals. Th flow of time is ONLY distorted in Lordran. Not everywhere in the world. There are explanations of how NPC's get into the areas they do with the exception of Siegemeyer into lost izalith. It does bring up the fact that because it says "rescinded" the god of war didnt lose his status from what he did, but it was taken from him after he did what he did.

    If we take the statement is taken as literal, then why would he lose his deity status? "It's ok, we can remake that history book. No worries." Unless it had some far reaching consequences, it really doesn't make sense for him to be punished by stripping away his divinity.

    Also, if their is an accepted theory as to how the various NPC's sneak their way around, what evidence is there to support Solaire's statement that time is jumbled?


    The loss of the annals and the loss of his status as referenced in the ring are not connected events. They are listed together but not related. Its generally accepted that the god of war is responsible for exstinguishing the flame of disparity which is why he lost his status. The time distortion is proven by the ability to aid and invade other players. Their is evidence to show how the NPC's sneak around however acidic is the best one to ask about that.
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    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:05 am

    @Doughguy You maybe right about the God of War extinguishing the First Flame. What else could he do to be banished from history? Did he really killed his mother, Velka?


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    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:16 am

    Whether Velak is alive or not is unknown. However she was alive after the exstinguishing of the flame since she is believed to have influenced the four kings to falling for the dark. He could have seen his mother falling to the dark and killed her before she fell too far. However we dont actully know after which event the god of war lost his status. So after all that ... it's possible but unlikely.


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    Post by Gol on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:54 am

    Shkar wrote:
    Gol wrote:Gwyn's firstborn is responsible for what happened in the archives, that's what the ring says, the "time distortion" is not his fault, it all started because of the flame.

    While that may be true, and I don't know enough about the time aspect to truly argue that, the ring says nothing of the archives. The annals could be a book, stone slab, tapestry, or anything that could be used to record history. Or, as I had thought at first, it could simply refer to the linear flow of time.

    It could even simply refer to losing PART of the annals causing the pygmy to be forgotten. I will leave the analysis and how it all fits in to acidic, since he seems to be the best at analyzing the game lore.

    That being said, I AM curious as to what you mean by "what happened in the archives". Would you mind explaining that to me?



    I'm french and playin on a french version of the game, and in that french version the description says :

    "Le premier né de Gwen était un Dieu de la Guerre, mais son inconscience entraîna la perte des Archives et sa propre déchéance. Aujourd'hui, on a oublié jusqu'à son nom."

    "Archives", the A is a capital letter, wich means it's a proper noun, the description is talking about the "Archives" ("Archives du Duc") and not "archives", so it's not a book or any other thing.
    There's a translation mistake probably, the english version has also a bugged description for the pendant that the french version doesn't have.

    And, what happened in the archives ?
    You played the game, don't you ?
    You didn't see that Seath has gone mad ? That the Archives were sealed ? That he was experimenting on humans (Though, I think he already did it before "what happened") ?

    The God of War did something, I don't know what, but something happened.

    And, are you the one who downvoted my message ?
    It's not that I care about that rep stuff but I'm sure some peoples care and I don't want all my messages to be classified as "non-useful" because I have a negative rep.
    I was just stating my opinion and bringing something to the debate.




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    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:27 pm

    Gol wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    Gol wrote:Gwyn's firstborn is responsible for what happened in the archives, that's what the ring says, the "time distortion" is not his fault, it all started because of the flame.

    While that may be true, and I don't know enough about the time aspect to truly argue that, the ring says nothing of the archives. The annals could be a book, stone slab, tapestry, or anything that could be used to record history. Or, as I had thought at first, it could simply refer to the linear flow of time.

    It could even simply refer to losing PART of the annals causing the pygmy to be forgotten. I will leave the analysis and how it all fits in to acidic, since he seems to be the best at analyzing the game lore.

    That being said, I AM curious as to what you mean by "what happened in the archives". Would you mind explaining that to me?



    I'm french and playin on a french version of the game, and in that french version the description says :

    "Le premier né de Gwen était un Dieu de la Guerre, mais son inconscience entraîna la perte des Archives et sa propre déchéance. Aujourd'hui, on a oublié jusqu'à son nom."

    "Archives", the A is a capital letter, wich means it's a proper noun, the description is talking about the "Archives" ("Archives du Duc") and not "archives", so it's not a book or any other thing.
    There's a translation mistake probably, the english version has also a bugged description for the pendant that the french version doesn't have.

    And, what happened in the archives ?
    You played the game, don't you ?
    You didn't see that Seath has gone mad ? That the Archives were sealed ? That he was experimenting on humans (Though, I think he already did it before "what happened") ?

    The God of War did something, I don't know what, but something happened.

    And, are you the one who downvoted my message ?
    It's not that I care about that rep stuff but I'm sure some peoples care and I don't want all my messages to be classified as "non-useful" because I have a negative rep.
    I was just stating my opinion and bringing something to the debate.





    That's the french description of the Ring of Sun's Firstborn? Can you translate it for us? What does it say?


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    Post by Gol on Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:43 pm

    It says the same thing as the english description but if you want a homemade translation:

    Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war but his
    unconsciousness/thoughtlesness/recklessness (pick the one you prefer) caused the loss of the Archives and his own disgrace. Nowadays, even his name has been forgotten.



    Except it mentions the "Archives", with a "A" in capital letter, wich means it's a proper noun and that it is the Duke's Archives.
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    Post by User on Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:56 pm

    It is annals in the English terms of the ring, actually.
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    Post by Gol on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:27 pm

    Yup, I know, I was just sayin that in french it was clearly talking about the Archives.
    Bad translation, I think.
    It is the french traslation that is wrong or the english one ?
    That is the question.
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    Post by Tolvo on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:28 pm

    Probably the Japanese version is what we should focus on if translation is an issue, as that one will have the definite version.
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    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:30 pm

    Does the Sunlight Medal says the same about the Archives?


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    Post by Gol on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:37 pm

    Even in english it doesn't talk about the Archives, it says he was expunged from the annals, meaning he was expunged from history whereas the ring's description is talking about the annals like if it was an item or a place.

    So, it will be the same in french (I don't remember exactly the description).
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    Post by Tolvo on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:39 pm

    My god...This is a pretty crazy idea, but what about if the different versions actually give different bits of the lore? I almost wouldn't put it past From.

    This game is going to kill me.
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    Post by Shkar on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:39 pm

    Gol wrote:



    I'm french and playin on a french version of the game, and in that french version the description says :

    "Le premier né de Gwen était un Dieu de la Guerre, mais son inconscience entraîna la perte des Archives et sa propre déchéance. Aujourd'hui, on a oublié jusqu'à son nom."

    "Archives", the A is a capital letter, wich means it's a proper noun, the description is talking about the "Archives" ("Archives du Duc") and not "archives", so it's not a book or any other thing.
    There's a translation mistake probably, the english version has also a bugged description for the pendant that the french version doesn't have.

    And, what happened in the archives ?
    You played the game, don't you ?
    You didn't see that Seath has gone mad ? That the Archives were sealed ? That he was experimenting on humans (Though, I think he already did it before "what happened") ?

    The God of War did something, I don't know what, but something happened.

    And, are you the one who downvoted my message ?
    It's not that I care about that rep stuff but I'm sure some peoples care and I don't want all my messages to be classified as "non-useful" because I have a negative rep.
    I was just stating my opinion and bringing something to the debate.





    I see what was meant by the annals part not causing him to lose his divinity, I see that was just my not reading carefully enough.

    I did NOT down rank you, although I can understand why you would think that since I may have come across as angry. I assure, I was not.

    By "what happened in the annals" I thought you meant something that was believed to happen before the part of the timeline we play in. I personally don't see how the god of war could have anything to do with the archives.

    Gol wrote:Even in english it doesn't talk about the Archives, it says he was expunged from the annals, meaning he was expunged from history whereas the ring's description is talking about the annals like if it was an item or a place.

    So, it will be the same in french (I don't remember exactly the description).

    Actually it says he LOST the annals, not was removed from them. Just making sure we're all on the same page so we can cooperate.
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    Post by User on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:56 pm

    It is true, it does say lost. Hell, I wear it all the time.

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