The Search for Lore

Has anyone tried killing Siege's daughter just before she kills him? Does it just end his questline or does domething else happen? Also "last words of his mother" and "hangs around in firelink alot". Who do we know that can't speak anymore and is in firelink? Anastacia of Astora. Potential mother of Siegelinde.

The curse of the undead. It must have been around for a long long time. If havel was a firend to Gwyn before he linked with the fire he then he would have become undead not long after the the second lighting of the flame. Havel is also a WoW member and woulod most likely be related to the pygmy if he was one of the first to turn undead. Perhaps a grandson to the god of war? (This might not make much sense, I had a great idea but lost my train of thought.)

Anastacia of Astora

Sieglinde/Siegmeyer of Catarina

Of course they're from the same family. :roll:
Honestly, I liked to read this thread because Acidic is kinda crazy (it's a compliment, I'm crazy too, maybe even more) and he takes a lot of time to reveal all the secrets, watching closely at every detail, etc.. and mostly because he's a good "writer".

But, for a while now, everyone throws his personal theory about whatever is going on in their head on this thread and sometimes it's pretty far-fetched... like priscilla being the daughter of Seath and Velka, I don't remember who keeps posting that everywhere on these forums but I'd like to know what proves it's true and how a dragon could make a human (because those "Gods" are humans) pregnant ?

We know that Seath is doing some experiments on humans (or undeads if you prefer) so, maybe it would be wiser to suppose that Priscilla is the result of an experiment and that she was simply brought in the painted world by Velka like a lot of other abominations.

You guys should think twice before posting your theories.
I'm not mocking you or anything, just giving an advice.

I like the idea.

Edit: Copy pasted from Acid's post #27 Third of a Quarter, yet Third of a Half, page 17



Seath has a child, when which is a crossbreed between Dragon AND Human. As Velka is the supposed descendant as such, it can be clear that Velka had a daughter with Seath... even though she was married to Gwyn. As the painted world is a storage house of sorts, it can be said that she hid her second daughter away. As their is a Gwynevre statue in front of the Painted World, across the hall where the guardians are, it can be said that perhaps for a time the little girl was acting as her step sister at times, portraying her as such. In this, Velka declared an order of Guardians, who were of similar appearance of the Crossbreed, from others form entering the Painted World. But why would she be in love with a Dragon?

Kaathe, a Dark Beast, rests within the World of New Londo as the corruption that took New Londo from the grip of the gods, turning it into a fest of dark. As their are two statues of Velka dn her daughter, which is also seen with the same statue in the Painted World (although green and of smaller scale), it can be said that Velka and Kaathe has a relation of sorts as well. Kaathe is also a Dragon, a Glutton Dragon, in which the glutton Dragons are a symbol of the Undead. Interesting, isn't it? It is also noted that their is only two beings that can go to the painted World, excluding the Abysswalker and the Dark Beasts: The Chosen Undead, when they obtain the Covenant of Artorias; Witch Beatrice, a Rogue witch that taught herself the way of sorcery. Although she is not Velka, as she has blond curly hair, and she also uses normal sorcery instead of Dark... the status of Witches being able to travel in the Abyss is a linkage of sorts. May I remind you that the Witch of Izalith and the Daughters are Witches as well? I will talk about her soon, don't worry.

So what are these relationships with the Dragons and Witches? Well, all the Witches, both Velka, the Witch of Izalith, and Witch Beatrice, all seek power of sorts. The dragons, such as Seath, were speculated to be once human (as speculated before), also seek such power as well. It seems that such Witches and Dragons have a same Goal: To Obtain Power. of course, only one witch does obtain it, while her followers also obtain it as well as Herders and Warlords, by their own right. Now whether or not Kaathe, being a Dragon, was a human being or not, but it can be said that the Glutton Dragons came to exist by such rituals as such. Although how that may be is unknown. What we do know that the Dark has teamed up, excluding the great Gravelord himself. But why?

That, my friends, is simple. Nito seeks the flame to stay lit, so that incarnation can forever exist, and his power as such can ever so prosper. Even if he was a spawn of Velka, he still declares her lesser than the new Flame Keeper (but not Firekeeper), Gwyn. The relationship between Gwyn and Velka is unknown... but it seems that Velka wanted to bring down her husband for more power. Corrupting Gwyndolin (by the hand of Seath), Causing the God of War to Exile, the people of Anor Londo to flee, and cheating on Gwyn with a bastard abomination... it can be said that their is a reason why Velka is known as the Goddess of Sin. The same reason why the Firstborn is known as the God of War. Not only because it is what they are affiliated with, but also for what they had done. As Seath is a Sorcerer, and Velka a Witch, such bondage of magic and power could have tied the two together at one point, in which Gwyn was removed form their sights of reason. Kaathe corrupted on of the Knights of Gwyn, Artorias, in which claimed the power of the Dark, and was known as the Four Kings. It seems that is the reason why Velka has pardoners to remove the sins of others, so that they may be hidden from the sight of the other Gods and watchers of Gwyn.

There were posts before hand. Hold on. I'll edit and add.

@Gol as you can see Acidic first mentioned Priscilla being the daughter of Seath and Velka. Also we don't know how big Velka is or if she is "human". Seath didn't start experimenting on maidens until we went insane. We don't know how dragons reproduce and Seath is the master of sorcery, I think he could find a way to get around any problems he would have.

So people from different countries cannot have children together? The daughter could not be raised by the father in his homeland? Siege couldnt have been born in Astora, had a child then moved the Catarina and trained as a knight there thus making more sense for him to introduce himself as Siegemeyer of Catarina? His daughter also couldnt have trained as a knight in Catarina and thus introduced herself as from catarina?

People (or at least I do and Im sure others do) post their theories here so that we can discuss them and hopefully provide information acidic can use in his posts.

The art book stuff. Though yeah, I'm keeping my eyes peeled, it is April 1st after all.

It seems when people suspected Andre as a Gwyn family member they weren't far off. Sucks that he isn't though.

Yeah, I wasn't too far off! I would have been correct! If they hadn't changed it.

DoughGuy wrote:@Gol as you can see Acidic first mentioned Priscilla being the daughter of Seath and Velka. Also we don't know how big Velka is or if she is "human". Seath didn't start experimenting on maidens until we went insane. We don't know how dragons reproduce and Seath is the master of sorcery, I think he could find a way to get around any problems he would have.

So people from different countries cannot have children together? The daughter could not be raised by the father in his homeland? Siege couldnt have been born in Astora, had a child then moved the Catarina and trained as a knight there thus making more sense for him to introduce himself as Siegemeyer of Catarina? His daughter also couldnt have trained as a knight in Catarina and thus introduced herself as from catarina?

People (or at least I do and Im sure others do) post their theories here so that we can discuss them and hopefully provide information acidic can use in his posts.

I know, but Acidic is not like "All I'm sayin is the truth, my friends", he says it himself : those are suppositions.

And about that stuff with anastacia and sieg, do you have any proof ?
No.

So, you're wrong.
And "last words" is an expression used when you're talking about dead persons, just sayin.

We all know Acidic is talking in speculation and so are we. However it becomes tiresome to say "Its possible" or "Its most likely that" so instead we just say "Velka is" or "Priscilla is". It just makes things easier to wirte and more bearable to read.

Do you have any counter evidence that they arent the mother and father of siegelinde? No then I'm not wrong, but I'm not right either. Thats how speculation works. I propose a theory and then if evidence is found to prove it I'm right. If evidence is found against or another theory with evidence that supersedes mine is found I'm wrong. For now the theory is still that, a theory.

Last words is a thing you say about dead people. But can it only be said about dead people? Anastiacia is mute and has been stuck under there for god knows ho long. She may as well be "dead" to her daughter. Or the phrase could be LITERAL and be her actual last words because she had her tongue cut out. There are still possibilities where my theory works that arent that far fetched.

Tolvo wrote:

The art book stuff. Though yeah, I'm keeping my eyes peeled, it is April 1st after all.

This is what we've all ben waiting for but it kinda feels like the lore is ruined now.

I... obviously need to read back, but siegelinde being a daughter of PRISILLA? Sigmeyer can't even get into anor londo until you show up. and I think she outright says he is her father doesnt she?

And I can only assume his daughter left to come after him, so odds are she was not in dukes archives until after he was past sens as well

there is zero evidence for her being the daughter of a "half dragon" its just outlandish to assume that from nothing. I doubt that siegmeyer has any relation to any of the other cast, its more likely he is grief stucken after the death of his true wife and ventures to lordran hoping A. she is undead or B. he can find a manner to make her immortal. And even that is a wild guess.

But his lack of knowledge about the locations in anor londo lead me to believe he has never been there before and is questing for "adventure" I think his daughter says. He is just some crazy old knight.

On a note of the video, most of it agreed with what I had assumed of the game. So i don't see the lore tarnished in anyway. If kirk were the son of chaos that would have made ceaseless simply "some monster" which is rather boring. And the information about naked logan, really nice to hear.

Yukon you completely misread my post. I was countering Gol's points paragraph by paragraph. SO my first para counters his firts para, my second para counters his second para. The paragraphs do not neccesarily follow on from each other. I was arguing that Anastacia of Astora was the mother not Priscilla.

Why is everyone so eager to pimp out the firekeeper in the shrine? Lol..

I did state I needed to read back, since I didnt read from where this started and I was pretty confused by both assumptions. I just have a super hard time thinking of siegelinde being the daughter of any of the characters we are introduced to. She is simply following her father, and her father is clearly missing a few screws due to some form of drama that occured, either his death or the death of his loved ones. There is just no support of the idea she is related to either of them. that I am aware of.

It seems far more likely to me that the firekeeper was warning hollows about what they were doing, like kaathe, but she got her tongue removed for her efforts. Everyone seems so ready to put her and pricilla down someones pants, I just don't get it.

Honestly I cant remember the last time I saw something about Priscilla or Anastacia being "down someones pants". Could you point these places out to me?
When you give her her tongue back doesn;t the firekeeper pump up the bonfire to 20 when you choose to follow one of the serpents? Which one is it? Cause if it is Kaathe you could be right there.

I wasn't aware of her pumping the fire, I kindled the fire to 20 before I talked to either snake haha.

As for the whole theory of everyone pimping out the firekeeper, I have heard people muse that she was in the opening clip, stroking the cheek of a knight, whom they assumed was the furtive pygmy decendent or YOU. SO she must be your wife.

I don't know where its buried but I posted somewhere near it so you could go hunting. It's just highly unattractive to me to pair the firekeeper with anyone. Personal taste, I just don't think she's that sort of gal.

As for pricilla, I can't even recall exact details, but I have heard of her being the mother or some character, it was just absurb. I don't have the time to hunt them down for you but I have read them here on these forums, so if anyone else can provide the link or quote thats dandy.

I agree someone above mentioned "Final words" is usually related to death not .. tongue mutilation. There just isn't enough evidence for me to believe the catarina family is relative to anyone currently in lordran.

EDIT: in my personal opinion on the opening clip its just her taking pity on the people suffering from the darksign. I don't assume she started in that cage, but was instead put there when she became to active in her actions to protect hollows. Just wanted to get my little 2 cents on the whole KNIGHT = YOU = FIREKEEPER IS YOUR WAIFU.

Afaik she kindles the fire after you offer the first lord soul to the vessel, regardless of which serpent you side with, or if you ignore them altogether. Not sure if restoring her tongue is necessary either.

/ I just tried this, and she didn't kindle the fire.
I had kindled the bonfire to 15 earlier, but didn't restore her tongue. I said no to kathee, attacked frampt and jumped into the hole instead. I also had all the lord souls before I offered them. So any of those could also be the reason she didn't kindle it.

If Seath obtained immortality from the primordial crystal why would he need to kidnap undead for experiments? Also what would drive him to go mad? I fought seath last night and i noticed his primordial crystal is extremely thin. Maybe the crystal was being consumed over time and almost out of juice, which is why its so thin and frail breaking after one hit and why seath was still conducting experiments and searching for something to help retain his immortality which lead to his madness? just some random thoughts

That's actually not a bad idea, and I don't think I've seen that one presented before. Good thinking, I'll have to do some examinations of that crystal.

While going on a several day long Dark Souls binge, I thought of a few questions that I haven't seen asked/thought of before. Mostly they are about the depths, since it seems largely ignored as far as info goes.

1: Who put the rats in teh crates in the Depths? This shows blatant trap preparation, which isn't exactly common until you reach Sen's Fortress.

2: The sealed passageways in the Depths corridors. What is behind them, and why do the edges of the "doors" glow a fiery red?

3: The Gaping Dragon climbs up from a deep pit with a current of water flowing down into it. What's down there? There can't be enough adventurers walking through that part of the sewers to keep it well fed, so what is a giant dragon to eat?

4: Why is it that the important, unique characters do not respawn? Everyone is undead, so how come it's only the ordinary monsters that respawn? Are the monsters actually rising from the dead, or is are there simply so many undead that when you kill them off more wander into that area?

3. I once tried to make the gaping dragon charge down there to see if it killed it. Im pretty sure it bounces off like theres an invi wal there.

4. My theory is that they do respawn, but they are all now hollow. So they basically become the prdinary hollows you see throughout the levels. Due to their minds being screwed up they slowly forget their spells, their armour gets beaten up and their clothes get torn.

What Doughguy say. Also I don't think the Depths have some meaning, there are just sewers. Maybe the channeler put the rats in the crates. The fiery red I don't know what is...

Always thought the stuff all over the walls and stuff was.... Rat excrement. XP

Small thing of note, in the Depths some walls let Prism stones go right through them, some don't. Haven't the slightest clue why.

DoughGuy wrote:3. I once tried to make the gaping dragon charge down there to see if it killed it. Im pretty sure it bounces off like theres an invi wal there.

4. My theory is that they do respawn, but they are all now hollow. So they basically become the prdinary hollows you see throughout the levels. Due to their minds being screwed up they slowly forget their spells, their armour gets beaten up and their clothes get torn.

3: Well, that makes sense gameplay wise. I still want to know what's down there lorewise though. Not of massive importance, but that whole area just bothers me.

4. So do they wander off? Most of the NPC's would die at the Firelink Shrine, but they never appear as hollows there. If they do wander off, why don't the normal monsters? The hollows we see don't seem to have any inclinations towards travel.

Also, what about the non human monsters? The rats I can understand, as they have huge litters, but the drakes? They are by far stronger then the average hollow, and if they can breed and grow as fast as the hollows can, why have they not destroyed the surrounding environment?



Some more topics I thought of:

There are 2 places where the abyss can be accessed: Frampt's hole (I'm assuming that is technically the Abyss) and the staircase leading to the Four Kings fight. Both are obviously manmade/built around, so the question is was the abyss a hole there to begin with and the humans built around it, or did the humans use magic to create tunnels to the abyss?

In the Dark Lord ending, we see 10 (!) Primordial Serpents. It is said that Artorias made a pact with the BEASTS (plural) of the abyss. So, how come the only one ever talks about is Kaathe? Given that the two serpents each refer to themselves as THE primordial serpent, I stake my ground in my personal theory of "The Serpents are actually a massive, hideous hydra at the center of the world!"

Many people don't seem to accept Acidic's theory that the Four Kings are in fact Artorias, probably because Artorias is shown to be left handed? Obviously the Four Kings look alike (are we just fighting one who's power is to clone himself, or are they actually all 4 kings?), but they are all missing their left arm. If I was a left-handed swrodsmen and lost my left hand, I would obviously use my right hand for my sword (as opposed to, you know, letting myself get killed).

Oh god, the abyss holds an orochi!!!

I think the 4 kings are just that. 4 kings corrupted by darkness. Though the lopped limb thing is true, they still have that.... Living cloak thing on there left side.