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    My thoughts on the reputation system.

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    Post by Rifter7 Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:47 am

    hey.. now before you start typing out an essay on how it works, let me stop you...
    i've GOT the basics down (thanks tolvo). i just wanted to discuss my thoughts on it a little bit and see if they bounced i guess. sorry if this is a commonly posted topic - i don't really leave the pvp section as i'm sure some may have noticed.

    so basically.. we have this nifty little system where you can give positive or negative votes... anonymously... and along with "thanks" that can be given by OP's, a little reputation number under your avatar goes up or into the negatives. i get that that gives the community a quick glance at how that player acts when compared to their total post count...

    ie a few posts and high rep- leaves only useful info and largely ignores normal discussion
    lots of posts and high rep- does a bit o both
    lots of posts and near 0 rep- lives in off topic
    low posts and high negative rep- pro troll
    high posts and high negative rep- butts heads a lot.

    in a nut shell right.. obvs theres different reasons..
    "Yeah we know, jacka**!" hang on! just lemme set up the groundwork.

    but.. what about that player who is new to the series but is also a forum junkie in general..
    they come on here, mad that they got lagstabbed or attacked questing by a modder/glitcher and they just lay into the game- publicly. i know everyone has gotten upset with a game and maybe threw a controller or three or made the cat consider running away from home- but this guy/girl decided to freak out online.

    then you come along, bored at work and notice the thread. you downvote it cause you felt like you've lost those 20 seconds of your life that you're already being paid for or something ahaha idk- fill in the blanks.

    this is where things start to get a little weird.. how likely do you think the next person is to downvote that thread after they see that new member whose already downvoted and the locals are already poking with the pitchforks and torches (hell, i know i'm usually first to the show, not trying to point fingers here) vs basically the same topic, but this one is not downvoted, has a familiar member as the op and other posters just offering solutions or even agreeing?

    i'd put money on the new members thread..

    well, before you know it that new member is sitting at -5 or -10... without them knowing wtf that red bar even is or what that -10 rep under their name really represents to the community.

    couple of weeks later they come back, they got a new controller and they've beaten that boss/won their first pvp match/sobered up. idk, again fill in the blanks. they just start posting away, unaware of what that original post did to their rep.

    now.. remember those really lame examples i gave up above? when you see this new member posting and you see that horrible rep you're going to have a slightly predetermined view of whatever they post... unless you actually go and find why they where downvoted yourself- which is a royal chore.

    so.. they appear in a thread you're talking in about idk.. great combustion and dex.

    leave this comment that i made up (it took me forever to come up with it..)

    i kind of think the dex, attune and item slot is a waste. skilled weapon use can cover missing pyros.

    if they have high rep, that'll be viewed as an opinion- maybe that person isn't talking out their a** and has some more advice to give.

    if that comes from a -10 5 post person that's viewed as "LOL YOU BAD. WEAPON BETTER.". obviously not to that extent, but most people will more likely take that as a direct attack or insult because of that little number under their name.. it might even make members treat them differently or downvote them more IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S NEGATIVE.

    now.. lets just flip it around a bit.
    you've been on the forums for a while, and you usually try to help people out or speak your mind... probably a little bit to much.
    you log on after a couple of days mia and notice your rep has gone up quite a bit.. you think to yourself "neat, i bet that guy liked my advice" so you go check the post.. nothing.
    okay.. you go check some other posts.. nothing.
    you know someone was happy about what you did, but you have NO IDEA what exactly it is. it's like some guy off the street walked up to you, shook your hand and couldn't stop saying thanks- and then they walk away before telling you why. it's a little bit weird.

    it's cool to know that you're doing helpful things, but how are you suppose to work with the feedback and keep doing those things if YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE!

    lets pretend that you posted something stupider than hell a month ago and a bunch of dingbats thought it was hilarious. that's the reason it got upvoted lets say..
    now lets pretend that some other dingbat saw this and got mad that, in his eyes, the equally funny post below yours had no green bar of awesomeness.
    this guys now batman and you just killed his family.
    he goes to thru all of your old posts each day and downvotes whatever he can.

    you come back and notice your rep has dropped like a rock.. you get curious and check some of your recent opinionated posts.. but nothing. you have no idea what you've done to anger someone unless you pull some investigative work and search thru your old posts.. all 5k of them.. and even if you do find them you have no idea how many downvotes a particular one got unless it has an upvote, so you have no idea just HOW MAD people where with what you said.

    it just seems like a cool system for the forums, i really like it.. but i don't know, some stuff doesn't make sense with it.

    i don't care either way, i'm not really posting this to demand change or something, more just to see what others think about the topic and to maybe bring some points up that might interest any readers.

    abrupt conclusion ftw. lemme know what you think, or add your own essay.. i'll even mark it for you.

    Spoiler:
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:59 am

    I know there are flaws with the system, and it works best with people that moderate themselves.

    In regards to a new person complaining and getting an early negative rep, some of us actually try to follow their progress and if we notice they aren't doing that anymore, we rep them up or try to explain to them about how their posts can come off.

    But yeah it isn't perfect, it just takes some people trying to fix the issues and offset them to get it working well. The only thing we really can't deal with is the downrep trolls, other than repping up posts we see that are downrepped for no reason.

    As I always say rep helps in getting an idea, but people should really go post by post and check the history of a person if they are concerned about their history.

    It's always nice to get some feedback on this sort of stuff, and I'm glad my information on the basics has helped out if even in a small way.
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    Post by ROOSTER330 Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:29 am

    I basically agree with everything you said.

    That said, the only thing I ever use the rep for is to see how helpful the person has been to others if I have a question and they have answered. I try not to judge personality by it because alot of people get down rep for giving an opinion thats not popular or that certain people disagree with. Being super stubborn and opinionated myself, I cant judge people based on what others think about their views. Same goes for high rep members.

    So basically I ignore the rep unless Im looking for an experienced question answer-er silly
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    Post by n0rain Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:45 am

    ^agreed with Rifter and Rooster

    Repuataion feature is a tricky venture, but it should probably require a small explanation for whatever rep you give a person so they can see why. Oh I was helpful because I offered advice without chhanging the build completely, or I was unhelpful because I basically started from scratch and didn't try to build something similar to what they were asking about.

    OT- This should probably go in the wiki forum suggestion section.
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    Post by Rifter7 Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:10 am

    dude i don't even know where the hell i post stuff half the time. if a mod sees it and doesn't want to deliver a swift kick to my head for knocking the system, feel free to move it. i like your suggestions tho man!

    that's good rooster. being able to read between the lines and look past s*** is a very useful skill to have in any situation... but i don't need to tell you that.

    tolvo stop being modest lol. you put the effort in and it shows.
    but yeah i mean, like i said i don't expect anything to come from this- nor is that my intention. i just want to bring it up, let people see it and think about it themselves, you know? and i think you've added in a lot of useful stuff yourself. i wouldn't of bothered following new members around, upvoting them when i thought it was worth doing.. but when the two points are put together like this it makes it seem like a reasonable thing to do. maybe others will see it that way.

    s*** i wasted a thumbs up.. well i didn't waste it, on that snuggly video in des discussion.. w/e i'll remember to bump roosters tomorrow i guess..
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:04 am

    Another thing to consider is that this is essentially a forum Template, while there is a lot of free reign in running it some things just can't be done. Such as I'm personally not sure just how much the reputation system can be tweaked. It might be an on/off kind of thing.

    What might be nice is an opt in, opting in to let people know who repped them up/down, and allow them to give an explanation with their rep. That way those who wish to stay anonymous can, and those who don't, don't have to. I'm unsure though if the site is even capable of doing that.

    And I'll never stop being modest! Trust me a humble Tolvo is the best Tolvo.
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    Post by ViralEnsign_ Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:33 am

    Yeah well with 286!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rep you are rocking the mad respect.

    I've been trying to crack 100 for weeks.... I'll get to 98 but then I get repped down somewhere.... However I will persevere!
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    Post by Rifter7 Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:53 am

    putting out useful info almost always gets you rep.
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:15 am

    The same comes from insightful and useful threads.
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:42 am

    Rifter7 wrote:putting out useful info almost always gets you rep.
    You'd think so, but unless they have more than 35 posts you'd be wrong silly
    Honestly I can't really remember any examples of what you are talking about with the newer people, but I think our community generally makes our rep system work as good as you could get one too ever.
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    Post by Spurgun Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:48 am

    I think that you should be able to see who up/down repped you.

    That's my only comment on the rep system silly
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    Post by DoughGuy Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:56 am

    Spurgun wrote:I think that you should be able to see who up/down repped you.

    That's my only comment on the rep system silly
    While I agree with this, the mods make a very good point in that seeing your down repped posts could lead to rep wars. If you get downrepped in an argument you had lsat month you likely know who did it, and would return the favour. This would make a cycle that repeats till the lower rep person hits 0 and cant downrep anymore. Either that or th emods notice you 2 downrepping like crazy and ban you both from giving out rep.
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    Post by ViralEnsign_ Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:58 am

    I could see that happening.
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    Post by dianaduh Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:22 am

    The rep system is good but depends on how people use it.
    Unfortunately I don't think there's a way we can manage it whitout advicing people to rep properly, which is actually really hard cause we all have different points of view.
    I don't know how knowing who rep you up or down could help. So someone rep you down cause in his opinion your question was noob or has been answered before, or they got mad at you for any other reason. I don't think that knowing who did it would help.
    Also, I run another forum, it's a layout thing but you can't enable people to see who rep who
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:26 am

    I'm a part of another forum which has it set so that reps have comments with them, which is nice. But I think their site allows the admins more flexibility and settings than this one does.

    I do also have a little guide on how to use rep responsibly and respectfully. But I suppose that falls under the idea of varying opinions.
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    Post by Spurgun Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:31 am

    DoughGuy wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:I think that you should be able to see who up/down repped you.

    That's my only comment on the rep system silly
    While I agree with this, the mods make a very good point in that seeing your down repped posts could lead to rep wars. If you get downrepped in an argument you had lsat month you likely know who did it, and would return the favour. This would make a cycle that repeats till the lower rep person hits 0 and cant downrep anymore. Either that or th emods notice you 2 downrepping like crazy and ban you both from giving out rep.

    That's true. But i hate the trolls who just downrep someone all the time, with the safety of anonymity.
    Ans i think most of the people on this forum are mature enough to not start a rep war.
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    Post by Rifter7 Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:37 am

    i just want to say it's relativley simple when it comes to finding out who repped you. just click the members list and it'll show all of the recent members..
    Spoiler:

    out of those ones i recognize probably more than half from just being in the pvp section.
    so.. yeah if someones handing out troll rep just check it out. you can look under the profile for statistics and it'll show things like the thanks, up and down votes they've given out too.

    just neat to know if you ever start noticing troll reps or what not.
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    Post by dianaduh Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:43 am

    Yea, ie I don't think there's a reason for us to rep people down, if the information wasn't useful, the person at least tried to help, only if someone's trolling, although that's what trolls want. Even if the person is making nonsense threads with no trolling intentions, for me it's better to warn him to at least go to the off-topic area.
    But what's this guide? People can choose whether or not to follow it, but it can be quite helpful
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    Post by Tolvo Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:04 am

    Well one thing we could do, is just start PM'ing people when we rep them. Or posting in the thread as some of us already do. Might not go over so well with negative reps though.
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:55 am

    i think people should justify a negative rep, if it isn't obviously to neg rep trolling or horrendous slander etc.

    Guys with a high rep also have a lot of helpful threads too rifter, for instance the reason tolvo has so much rep is because of the fact his posts are generally very helpful, but also he has a shedload of threads that are stickied, and one is a permanent forum announcement.

    I think generalising rep is too much really, some guys get rep for saying stuff as simple as 'ganking sukz' or get up/neg repped in a discussion of contentious issues just because they dis/agree with their position..

    I think that rep is overrated, and shouldn't be used as a guideline really. I see guys with no rep post very good explanations of things, and really every view matters regardless of post count rep, or name colour.
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    Post by WyrmHero Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:07 pm

    I agree totally with the "thanks" system opinion. I hate that thing so much, it's usually because most of my rep comes from "thanks". You can check the forums, most of my posts don't have the green bar, even if I help a new guy or posted an awesome build. Hell not even my Lifehunters thread has been repped up once. I mostly blame my grammar, and that the new guys can't rep me up cause they don't have +30 posts. So my true rep is around 20~30. "Thanks" comes when you rep someone up and they give you a "thanks". I use the rep system constantly, I usually rep up hilarious posts or those which are very helpful.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:34 pm

    My 2 cents isf that I up rep for justice (ie to correct a downrep I dissagree with) logic and general helpfulness (ie useful information and/or well thought out and articulated responses).

    I never rep in either direction for an opinion, but the manner in which it is presented can earn a rep in either direction.

    I take it with a grain of salt, high/neg rep don't garuntee anything but neither should they just be ignored.

    If tolvo posts anything, I read it, even if I expect to dissagree, where (naming no names) if a few others post I'm likely to skip it all together and their respective reputations reflect how much I value their opinions.
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    Post by n0rain Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:37 pm

    Yep still haven't figured out where I went from -2 to 1 rep. lol

    Oops, just found it. Someone thanked me for something. What, I don't know.


    Last edited by n0rain on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:38 pm

    n0rain wrote:Yep still haven't figured out where I went from -2 to 1 rep. lol

    you will have got a 'thanks', which is equivalent of plus 3 rep happy
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    Post by Rifter7 Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:37 pm

    trollvo was talking about how he'd monitor the posts and yours was just sitting right there so i fixed it hahah. idk if i liked how you where arguing with the mods in one thread but whatever. you've been putting out helpful s*** lately so...

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