The Forest Covenant!

Whknight wrote:I've been tempted as of late to just wander in there and see how many people I beat up before someone brings me down... Sometimes good can be tempted to do great evil

You should absolutely do it! We don't have a shortage of hosts, but it's always nice to get some new blood in the forest.

Don't be confused by all of my bluster about how hosts and their phantoms are cheesy. If it weren't for shady hosts and their phantoms, the forest wouldn't be the forest, and the hunters would have nothing to do!

I think you misunderstood me, I mean as in I walk in and rough the forest people up. I just don't really like the way the convent is, and from the few times waaay back when I did walk in I remember having quite a constant steam of folks. Compared to who knows when some poor griefer will invade :/

Whknight wrote:I think you misunderstood me, I mean as in I walk in and rough the forest people up. I just don't really like the way the convent is, and from the few times waaay back when I did walk in I remember having quite a constant steam of folks. Compared to who knows when some poor griefer will invade :/

No, I completely understand. You're talking about hosting (a human in the forest who isn't part of the covenent). I'm encouraging you to do it. You'll have fun, and we'll have fun hunting you.

blah ok I made sense of what you said the first time. Sorry it's 7am and I haven't slept. I may give it ago, are you on xbox by chance?

strangejoy wrote:It's confusing, isn't it? The word "help" has possitive connotations, but it turns out that helping people gangbang invaders at spawn points is generally frowned upon. In real life, helping can also be ambiguous. Helping someone rob a bank = not the good kind of help. Helping multiple people beat up a single person in a competitive match = cheesy in real life and Dark Souls

Well tbh When i'm with my Sunbro toon i really only help them get past everyone and mostly i only do 1v1 (the host must stay alive!) so when i say "helping" i mean in a good way xD but again what is good and what is evil? But with my main char i really only like giving you guys that what you give us...a hard time but i stay friendly..what i can't "always" say from the forest conv. some just do noobisch stuff and others give a really great battle...tobad there aren't much from this kind there cuz its really the best place for pvp IMO.

Whknight wrote:blah ok I made sense of what you said the first time. Sorry it's 7am and I haven't slept. I may give it ago, are you on xbox by chance?

Nah, PSN.

FlamingHarlekin wrote:

strangejoy wrote:It's confusing, isn't it? The word "help" has possitive connotations, but it turns out that helping people gangbang invaders at spawn points is generally frowned upon. In real life, helping can also be ambiguous. Helping someone rob a bank = not the good kind of help. Helping multiple people beat up a single person in a competitive match = cheesy in real life and Dark Souls

Well tbh When i'm with my Sunbro toon i really only help them get past everyone and mostly i only do 1v1 (the host must stay alive!) so when i say "helping" i mean in a good way xD but again what is good and what is evil? But with my main char i really only like giving you guys that what you give us...a hard time but i stay friendly..what i can't "always" say from the forest conv. some just do noobisch stuff and others give a really great battle...tobad there aren't much from this kind there cuz its really the best place for pvp IMO.

Oh, I'll fight fair if it's 1v1. If it's two or three of you versus me, expect no quarter! I had the funniest hate mail from a guy who double teamed me the other day. He was pretty upset that I kept backstabbing him. Yup, you double team me, and I'm going to pivot stab both you and your phantom. That's how this works! The funniest thing was that this guy was also a serial flasker. Some campers expect me to stand around while one of them flanks and backstabs me. When they get injured, they invariably flask and get upset when I backstab them during the flask animation. AFAIK, as far as they're concerned, a fight can only be "fair" and my tactics can only be non-"noobish" if I whittle the two or three of them down over a 20 minute period with no backstabs while they flask and constantly fish for backstabs.

strangejoy wrote:Oh, I'll fight fair if it's 1v1. If it's two or three of you versus me, expect no quarter! I had the funniest hate mail from a guy who double teamed me the other day. He was pretty upset that I kept backstabbing him. Yup, you double team me, and I'm going to pivot stab both you and your phantom. That's how this works! The funniest thing was that this guy was also a serial flasker. Some campers expect me to stand around while one of them flanks and backstabs me. When they get injured, they invariably flask and get upset when I backstab them during the flask animation. AFAIK, as far as they're concerned, a fight can only be "fair" and my tactics can only be non-"noobish" if I whittle the two or three of them down over a 20 minute period with no backstabs while they flask and constantly fish for backstabs.

If its a 1 vs 3 and all of them wanna gangbang you then i don't see any problem in BS'ing them to death. but BS'ing like crazy on a 1v1 is noobisch IMO. I do believe your a fair fighter, the way you are here, you are fair to everyone. yes the ppl who flask there self when they are losing. they are just asking for a BS. i rather die trying to win then healing myself and winning.

There is no better feeling than taking down campers! If I survive the initial jump then I will do every move in the book (including backstabs) to take you down.

If you really want hate mail get the "gangs" attention, haul *** to the bridge you cross to get to the black cats, slide down the ladder near it and cast some sort of aoe spell that has knock back and send the whole gang into the water lol! A cheap tactic yes, but after about the 3rd time I get jumped at the spawn points anything goes! Plus it's funny to make them think they got any easy kill and you are running scared then boom, oh such great hate mail!

Pharaun wrote:There is no better feeling than taking down campers! If I survive the initial jump then I will do every move in the book (including backstabs) to take you down.

If you really want hate mail get the "gangs" attention, haul *** to the bridge you cross to get to the black cats, slide down the ladder near it and cast some sort of aoe spell that has knock back and send the whole gang into the water lol! A cheap tactic yes, but after about the 3rd time I get jumped at the spawn points anything goes! Plus it's funny to make them think they got any easy kill and you are running scared then boom, oh such great hate mail!

I gotta try that. I've also found that casting chaos fireballs as they run accross the bridge is effective as long as you start the animation out of their sight (stand beside the door on the other side of the bridge, and only lock on half way through the animation). They get stuck in the lava, because they're preventing one another from running backwards. It's really ironic when their own double and triple teaming backfires by hindering their movement.

Kujii wrote:I got chased out of the forest Covenant actually. I get tired of unfair matches, after 4 or 5 2 vs 1 fights, I just get sick of the stuff. After another 60 or so, I quit. I found lot's more fun in being a Gravelord servant.

Ahh, that's a shame. Part of the reason I started this thread is that I wanted to give help and encouragement to people dealing with constant 2v1. I've found that being outnumbered can be extremely enjoyable and rewarding. Maybe I'm a sucker for punishment.

Everything that you said is true. The upside, however, is that you get to try out all of the clever strategies that you don't think are suitable for a dueling environment. Haven't you ever wanted to WoG someone from underneath stairs, firestorm as they enter a room, use mobs to harass them, pivot stab, counter pivot stab, WoG them off the side of a cliff? There are so many strategic options available to the forest hunter! And since the hosts and their phantoms are intentionally ganging up on lower level hunters for 2v1 or 3v1, it's hard to feel bad about doing crazy stuff to them. I try to mix it up instead of relying on a single strategy, which is one reason why I'm so excited to have gravelords cursing the area. Nailing a cheesy host with a black phantom mushroom would be oh so sweet.

LMAO!!!..Easy there Killers!!!

As a Forest host from time to time I have to say the host aren't always the ones doing the jumping..lol When I first wandered into the forest I was invaded as I was taking out the Knight.. that was ok 1vs1 then another invaded. now 2on1 I lost no problem but, I kept getting rushed by the blues even though they could clearly see I did not summon any help. The funny part is that my pvp ability isn't good at all so they prob could beat me 1on1. So now when I do go into the forest I have my battles and usually wait till I get jumped a few times before I summon someone ... So you hunters are just as bad as the hosts..lol .. Which makes me just as bad as you cause my other toon is a hunter.

I remember the first time I walked into the Forest in human form. I had no idea who the hell I had pissed off when I got rushed by those "blue guys". Lol! I remeber thinking "those are some bad *** enemies, I hope they don't respawn" I had not read the wiki or played Demon Souls so I had no idea what a phantom was.

Well, not quite, ted. There are a few things to note here.

First, after well over 100 invasions at various different soul levels, I can say with a 95% confidence level that we hunters can only invade at or above our SL (in other words, our invasion parameters appear to be the same as a DW's invasion parameters). Thus, we're mostly fighting people higher level or at our level, while hosts are mostly fighting people lower level or at their level. I'm pretty sure that most forest hosts know that they're fighting down (if not, they should know), and this fact attracts cheesy players.

Second, we forest hunters can't choose to summon other players. Thus, in instances where two blue show up, it's not because we consciously decided to summon help. The same isn't true for hosts.

Third, I can again say from experience that forest hosts double or triple team at least three to five times as often as forest hunters. I personally do not double team at all unless it's accidental (the other day, a darkwraith surprised my by appearing behind a host who I was trying to engage 1v1. I continued attacking, because I had no idea whether the DW was after me or the host until the host's sunbro arrived, when it became clear that the DW was on my side; we subsequently engaged in a 2v2 battle). The reason for this inequity is again that we forest hosts cannot intentionally summon our brethren, so we have no control over when and where they arrive. By the time reinforcements show up, it is typically too late to double team, even if we are inclined to do so. By contrast, campers can count on persistent phantom help from the get go.

A caveat: I will often attack a host who is engaged with NPC mobs, particularly if I see that the host is trying to summon a phantom or if I know from prior experience that the host is a camper. I'm not going to let hosts set up camp if I have a chance to stop them early. I will also backstab or WoG such a host. It's a prophylactic measure, but as soon as I see the "summoning phantom" message, my mission is to kill the host asap.

strangejoy - you are true forest tactician. I agree with you completely. Most invasions by forest convenant members is just like Capt. Kirk traveling into the unknown - the host is more in control of what and who enters the forest than we are. The unpredictability is why I am in this covenant - every invasion is different.

I would say one thing though - it does appear I have invaded some truely inexperienced hosts (i.e. low SL). I can usually tell how they fight and react to attacks/defenses. So I am not too sure there is a level restriction on forest convenant member invasions. I have not personally tried to affirm this but per http://darksouls.wikidot.com/forest-hunter

"Note that there is no character level restriction for invading other players."

and per http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Forest+Hunter

"The Cat Covenant Ring ignores the normal level range for invasions. As a result, a level 20 player may invade the world of a level 50 player ( not vice versa)."

But there appears to be caveat per the Darksoulswiki in that a high level forest convenant member not being able to invade a low-level host so I'm not completely sure of the rules around this.


"War is not a life: it is a situation, One which may neither be ignored nor accepted." - T.S. ELIOT

Brokewilly signing off - I would rather die with cold steel in my hand

strangejoy wrote:Well, not quite, ted. There are a few things to note here.

First, after well over 100 invasions at various different soul levels, I can say with a 95% confidence level that we hunters can only invade at or above our SL (in other words, our invasion parameters appear to be the same as a DW's invasion parameters). Thus, we're mostly fighting people higher level or at our level, while hosts are mostly fighting people lower level or at their level. I'm pretty sure that most forest hosts know that they're fighting down (if not, they should know), and this fact attracts cheesy players.

Second, we forest hunters can't choose to summon other players. Thus, in instances where two blue show up, it's not because we consciously decided to summon help. The same isn't true for hosts.

Third, I can again say from experience that forest hosts double or triple team at least three to five times as often as forest hunters. I personally do not double team at all unless it's accidental (the other day, a darkwraith surprised my by appearing behind a host who I was trying to engage 1v1. I continued attacking, because I had no idea whether the DW was after me or the host until the host's sunbro arrived, when it became clear that the DW was on my side; we subsequently engaged in a 2v2 battle). The reason for this inequity is again that we forest hosts cannot intentionally summon our brethren, so we have no control over when and where they arrive. By the time reinforcements show up, it is typically too late to double team, even if we are inclined to do so. By contrast, campers can count on persistent phantom help from the get go.

A caveat: I will often attack a host who is engaged with NPC mobs, particularly if I see that the host is trying to summon a phantom or if I know from prior experience that the host is a camper. I'm not going to let hosts set up camp if I have a chance to stop them early. I will also backstab or WoG such a host. It's a prophylactic measure, but as soon as I see the "summoning phantom" message, my mission is to kill the host asap.

I do agree the double teaming and the triple teams do favor the host since they have the ability to summon.

As far a the levels I was in the forest last night with a new basic lv.25 toon i'm testing and had my *** handed to me by someone in Havel Gear and DGS. I was confused how I was doing little to no damage considering he really wasn't blocking just steam rolling thru my attacks.and he just crushed me. I messaged him and found out he was .Lvl 125 to my 25..lol

I did convince him to meet me back in the forest with my 120 toon and evened the score..lol.

but I do agree once in the forest the objective is clear keep tresspassers out..lol by any means nessary..lol

ted1023 wrote:

strangejoy wrote:Well, not quite, ted. There are a few things to note here.

First, after well over 100 invasions at various different soul levels, I can say with a 95% confidence level that we hunters can only invade at or above our SL (in other words, our invasion parameters appear to be the same as a DW's invasion parameters). Thus, we're mostly fighting people higher level or at our level, while hosts are mostly fighting people lower level or at their level. I'm pretty sure that most forest hosts know that they're fighting down (if not, they should know), and this fact attracts cheesy players.

Second, we forest hunters can't choose to summon other players. Thus, in instances where two blue show up, it's not because we consciously decided to summon help. The same isn't true for hosts.

Third, I can again say from experience that forest hosts double or triple team at least three to five times as often as forest hunters. I personally do not double team at all unless it's accidental (the other day, a darkwraith surprised my by appearing behind a host who I was trying to engage 1v1. I continued attacking, because I had no idea whether the DW was after me or the host until the host's sunbro arrived, when it became clear that the DW was on my side; we subsequently engaged in a 2v2 battle). The reason for this inequity is again that we forest hosts cannot intentionally summon our brethren, so we have no control over when and where they arrive. By the time reinforcements show up, it is typically too late to double team, even if we are inclined to do so. By contrast, campers can count on persistent phantom help from the get go.

A caveat: I will often attack a host who is engaged with NPC mobs, particularly if I see that the host is trying to summon a phantom or if I know from prior experience that the host is a camper. I'm not going to let hosts set up camp if I have a chance to stop them early. I will also backstab or WoG such a host. It's a prophylactic measure, but as soon as I see the "summoning phantom" message, my mission is to kill the host asap.

I do agree the double teaming and the triple teams do favor the host since they have the ability to summon.

As far a the levels I was in the forest last night with a new basic lv.25 toon i'm testing and had my *** handed to me by someone in Havel Gear and DGS. I was confused how I was doing little to no damage considering he really wasn't blocking just steam rolling thru my attacks.and he just crushed me. I messaged him and found out he was .Lvl 125 to my 25..lol

I did convince him to meet me back in the forest with my 120 toon and evened the score..lol.

but I do agree once in the forest the objective is clear keep tresspassers out..lol by any means nessary..lol

Interesting. To be clear, you were a host at this time? I've never been a forest invader at higher than SL70, and most of my invasions have been SL12-50, so it's possible that I've missed some very high discrepencies in the other direction. I had one invasion at SL12 where I chain backstabbed some guy four or five times with a lightning claymore. He was wielding a TCC in on hand, a Demons Axe in the other hand, and switched back and forth in the beginning of the fight to a talisman for WoG. I got over 1M souls. Pretty sure he wasn't SL12, lol.

That reminds me of something: if you're going to use WoG, it's best to either have your talisman constantly in your offhand, or to switch between your talisman and something of equal size (pyro hand), so that you don't draw attention to your switching. My preffered forest hunter setup is claymore and unupgraded pyro (inner strength) in my right hand, and talisman/upgraded pyro hand in my left hand. I often double hand the claymore, but I like to keep the talisman and pyro options constantly open.

Kujii wrote:It's different when I get invaded by 2 people at the same time, or use Red Eye Orbs and a phantom happens to be there, or soon afterwards summoned. The forest covenant just makes me... mad. They are intentionally gathering allies purely to do such PvP. They have no honor.

I might try it again on this new char, the Titinite Catch Pole is.... pretty awesome, I might be able to keep 3 of them off me. I'm far more likely to join the Gravelord Covenant again though.

The forest is the place to get good practice and learn how to develop 2 vs 1 tactics which can be applied when you are gravelording because remember when you gravelord you are usually 1 vs 1. 2. or 3 So I recommend that you make a toon for the forest. I am sure strangejoy or me or some of the other guys could recommend a build strickly for jumper hunting

Not doing well today - 7 or 8 invasions and all were losses. Too many mistakes made, over-reacting, second guessing, etc. A couple were pretty long - but couldn't finish the camper. Oh well - the tough life of FoC member.


"He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious." – SUN TZU

"Losing would be painful, but not as painful as knowing there was something else you could've done." - JOE TRIPPI

Brokewilly signing off - is that a camper I hear!!!

Brokewilly wrote:Not doing well today - 7 or 8 invasions and all were losses. Too many mistakes made, overracting, second guessing, etc. A couple were pretty long - but couldn't finish the camper. Oh well - the tough life of FoC member.


"He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious." – SUN TZU

"Losing would be painful, but not as painful as knowing there was something else you could've done." - JOE TRIPPI

Brokewilly signing off - is that a camper I hear!!!

If we won 'em all, it wouldn't be worth it. We're in the forest to fight against the odds. In a few hours, I'll be in the forest killing hosts. No time thus far this weekend, which is leaving me bloodthirsty!

i had about 16 deaths yesterday and not a single win....all of them 2v1 and from the equipment and miracles spells i guess all they were mush higher from my 35 lvl hunter...probably i must tank a 250 sl and give these farmers a lesson