[SL 99] Why Dark Bead is bad...

http://mmdks.com/hu0 High hp great magic Defense Dead angles CMW buffed Death and Magic Estoc.......40 poise fast roll

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

eat a black flame if you try to BS that build.

EDIT: if you are mid rolling as well, i can back stab you just as easily as you can me, if you are fast rolling, you likely aren't rocking as much poise as i am and that black flame will wreck your **** lol

Forum Pirate wrote:And being butt r*ped by spears.

i got a spear to, besides, a chop from the Black Knight Halberd is gonna hurt you allot more than your spear will hurt me and you definitely ain't breaking my poise with a spear. try again.

Nybbles wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:put up or shut up? what you got

http://mmdks.com/htg

No shield, then mid rolling.
Easily slain with a few casts of emit force. You don't have enough dodging ability to get past it. Once I run out, I can shoot my bow at you, and by the time you kill me, I've likely killed you once or twice myself.

Rynn wrote:

Nybbles wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:put up or shut up? what you got

http://mmdks.com/htg

No shield, then mid rolling.
Easily slain with a few casts of emit force. You don't have enough dodging ability to get past it. Once I run out, I can shoot my bow at you, and by the time you kill me, I've likely killed you once or twice myself.

you mean you can't dodge emit force on a mid roll? that is the easiest spell to dodge even on a fat roll. hell, you don't even have to roll to avoid it. unless you got some lag in your favor, it ain't happening.

not having a shield when you are two handing a black knight halberd or a spear isn't a big deal, it's wasted weight to have a shield that does nothing on your back.

bows are easy to strafe as well, not that difficult to do. again, unless lag.

i'm not seeing how you are going to kill that build that easily.

what else you got?

i like this game.

Are you on X-box? If you are, come face me. I'll show you exactly how stupid every one of your arguments there was.
Emit Force, much like a great fireball, is very difficult to dodge when you're mid-rolling if they play without lockon.

Spears are faster than the halberd and can turtle you out with a crest shield. The dss, mlbh or a buffed pike would murder you due to your low magic and lightning defenses.

Poke and roll to victory because you can't bloock or dodge effectively and you're to slow to catch them.

Its not a bad build, but its far from competitive. It suffers from a lack of focus.

Also, its called fighting lock off. AoE spells and bows are brutal when lock off, especially with a mid roll.

Rynn wrote:Are you on X-box? If you are, come face me. I'll show you exactly how stupid every one of your arguments there was.
Emit Force, much like a great fireball, is very difficult to dodge when you're mid-rolling if they play without lockon.

i would love to challenge you, but i'm on PS3 unfortunately.

i'm not the greatest PVP player, but rolling through and around emit force isn't that hard. most of the time i just strafe around it. if your fighting unlocked well, have fun trying to predict where i'm gonna be at.

not saying you will never hit me with it, but even if you do, the damage isn't so immense that i can't shrug it off and my poise is high enough that it won't stagger me when it does connect.

you might try wrath of gods to stager me, if you are unlocked you can dead angle like a boss with that ****. but i can mid roll through wrath of gods about 7 out of 10 times.

the thing is, i have been playing the mid roll game since the beginning, most rely on fast roll or DWGR and as annoying as it is to fight those builds on a mid roll, i can do it adequately enough to say that it's a moot point.

the only time i am worried about being hit by spells is if there is lag working against me, i just don't find them that difficult to avoid. even while mid rolling.

the one thing i would be worried about is being TWoPed, but who isn't.

Forum Pirate wrote:Spears are faster than the halberd and can turtle you out with a crest shield. The dss, mlbh or a buffed pike would murder you due to your low magic and lightning defenses.

Poke and roll to victory because you can't bloock or dodge effectively and you're to slow to catch them.

Its not a bad build, but its far from competitive. It suffers from a lack of focus.

Also, its called fighting lock off. AoE spells and bows are brutal when lock off, especially with a mid roll.

you've never fought someone with the black knight halberd have you? it will break your guard in one hit if you're using a medium shield and you are wasting stamina trying to poke me out with a spear. plus the attack speed of the spear is significantly slower when turtling. you'd need a great shield for it to be a threat imo.

you'd be better off with a rapier class weapon, they are much faster and use less stamina when turtling, but i would still tank you out as the damage isn't that impressive. just please don't parry me lol.

i hate fighting roll and pokers though, they annoy me because they are difficult to deal with for any build. but unless they have enough poise to eat a hit from a BKH, they will be stopped in their tracks. the timing isn't too difficult if you're familiar with the weapon. besides, Dark Bead and Pursuers might also have a say on how you might want to approach me.

EDIT…not sure why ya'll got a thing against mid rolling or not using a shield in PVP it's not that big a deal. even when i have a shield, it's usually on my back doing nothing anyway because i like to two-hand my weapons. as for the slower speed, i'm not one of types that likes to jump and bounce all over the place, i don't find it necessary, just stand your ground and time your attacks to interrupt theirs, hardly any movement is needed really. only roll when you need to otherwise conserve your stamina for when you need it is what i say.

Nybbles wrote: just please don't parry me lol.

too late, so easy to parry a black knight halberd man, I would one shot you or do more than half your hp then firestorm since you are mid rolling, easy kill man, or fire whip for god's sake that thing is strong

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

LMAO

BeeSeaEss wrote:

Nybbles wrote: just please don't parry me lol.

too late, so easy to parry a black knight halberd man, I would one shot you or do more than half your hp then firestorm since you are mid rolling, easy kill man, or fire whip for god's sake that thing is strong

damn parriers…good thing i don't run into too many players that are good with them. but if your good at parrying, it doesn't really matter what build you're facing anyway because parrying.

Having enough poise to tank a halberd hit is really easy (poise stab), and only idiots just keep the shield up all the time. They could see your attack start, block and poke the back off and repeat.

You must not use great fire ball much. I hit with around a third of my casts against fast rollers who can roll all the way through it (I don't think the mid roll can btw.) She wouldn't actually have to hit you, just get close, and it would cost you upwards of 800 health if emit forces power is similar to great fire balls.

EDIT: For the record, I favor big weapons so I don't "bounce around," I defend by attacking. However, its vital that when I do need to move, I move quickly to avoid something like a tempest or gcfb that will go through at least half my hp.

BK Halberd is very good for a defensive build like yours, but forum's right spears make joke of any slow moving target. You try to mid roll their poking attemps, you get caught mid rolling cause of low I frames. The best thing you could do is tanking their sometimes poking spammage and stunlock them. For that you need at least 93 poise for 3 spear hits, 79 is too low for a mid roll in my opinion.

WyrmHero wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

LMAO

i still don't see why it's such a big deal, as a mid roller, for the most part, the only time i worry about being BSed is from the folks that like to poise through a hit for the BS, or roll stabbers, since a roll BS is easy to do against anyone if you know what you are doing, thanks for that EWGF lol, it really doesn't make much of a difference if you mid roll or fast roll against mid roll BSers…so meh.

WyrmHero wrote:BK Halberd is very good for a defensive build like yours, but forum's right spears make joke of any slow moving target. You try to mid roll their poking attemps, you get caught mid rolling cause of low I frames. The best thing you could do is tanking their sometimes poking spammage and stunlock them. For that you need at least 93 poise for 3 spear hits, 79 is too low for a mid roll in my opinion.

i wouldn't be mid rolling out of a spear poke, i'd either poise through it and counter attack, which will do a hell of allot more damage to them or i would give em a kick or try too if they were dumb enough to spam R1. roll pokers are still a pain and the bane of my existence though.

[quote="Forum Pirate"]You must not use great fire ball much. I hit with around a third of my casts against fast rollers who can roll all the way through it (I don't think the mid roll can btw.) She wouldn't actually have to hit you, just get close, and it would cost you upwards of 800 health if emit forces power is similar to great fire balls./quote]

pardon me, but black iron set is pretty much fire proof. you can hit with that all you like, well not all you like, but you get the idea. oh and you can mid-roll through a fire ball, not the chaos version, but you can do it, but i don't have to very often because strafing is usually enough to avoid it if there is enough distance between myself and the caster. unless lag of course which happens. no tto say that i don't have allot of respect for players who can successfully use spelsl/pryos or mircales while unlocked.

but anyway, this is getting ridiculous, we can do this all day, you're all right, i could never possibly win because i like to mid-roll. i give up, might as well never play this game again.

Nybbles wrote:

WyrmHero wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

LMAO

i still don't see why it's such a big deal, as a mid roller, for the most part, the only time i worry about being BSed is from the folks that like to poise through a hit for the BS, or roll stabbers, since a roll BS is easy to do against anyone if you know what you are doing, thanks for that EWGF lol, it really doesn't make much of a difference if you mid roll or fast roll against mid roll BSers…so meh.

The difficult thing about the mid roll is that the counter BS timing is different. Since your walking speed is slower you have to time the counter bs earlier.

[quote="Nybbles"]

Forum Pirate wrote:You must not use great fire ball much. I hit with around a third of my casts against fast rollers who can roll all the way through it (I don't think the mid roll can btw.) She wouldn't actually have to hit you, just get close, and it would cost you upwards of 800 health if emit forces power is similar to great fire balls./quote]

pardon me, but black iron set is pretty much fire proof. you can hit with that all you like, well not all you like, but you get the idea. oh and you can mid-roll through a fire ball, not the chaos version, but you can do it, but i don't have to very often because strafing is usually enough to avoid it if there is enough distance between myself and the caster. unless lag of course which happens. no tto say that i don't have allot of respect for players who can successfully use spelsl/pryos or mircales while unlocked.

but anyway, this is getting ridiculous, we can do this all day, you're all right, i could never possibly win because i like to mid-roll. i give up, might as well never play this game again.

LOL you don't have to do that, just makes some adjustments to the build so it looks more like a tank. High poise and HP. Also some weapons aren't good for mid roll, like the katanas. Mid rolling needs a weapon that can stunlock to counter its slowness.

WyrmHero wrote:

Nybbles wrote:

WyrmHero wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

LMAO

i still don't see why it's such a big deal, as a mid roller, for the most part, the only time i worry about being BSed is from the folks that like to poise through a hit for the BS, or roll stabbers, since a roll BS is easy to do against anyone if you know what you are doing, thanks for that EWGF lol, it really doesn't make much of a difference if you mid roll or fast roll against mid roll BSers…so meh.

The difficult thing about the mid roll is that the counter BS timing is different. Since your walking speed is slower you have to time the counter bs earlier.

assuming you like to counter BS in the way i think you are thinking. if they are using a slowish weapon and miss, if you're close enough, you can still break their shoulder easily enough for a BS. if they are fishing, back peddling is usually enough and if not, they can eat a black flame for trying. covering the distance to punish spell casters is difficult on a mid roll build, but keeping your distance is a better option anyway.

i seriously don't see what the big deal is, maybe it's because i've had so much practice at it, i chose to mid-roll even before the DWGR was nerfed and still had a fairly decent success ration in PVP. unless you like to roll a hundred times before engaging, it's just not that big of a deal.

EDIT: of course 2v1 is a completely different animal, fast roll or flipping is practically a requirement.

Did you read my post? I was likening emit force to great fire ball as great fire ball is more common. My argument was that emit force can and will hit in good hands because its aoe and the paltry magic defense that black iron armor provide would do little to stop you from losin upwards of 1/3rd of your hp.

I'm not nor was I suggesting that the mid roll is useless. I can and do use it. I am simply trying to explain the flaws in your build and strategy so you can correct where necessary. If you don't want to listen though, its not me who will be affected so whatever.

Nybbles wrote:

WyrmHero wrote:

Nybbles wrote:

WyrmHero wrote:

billy_bayonet wrote:mid roll??? enjoy your pushups everytime you get Bs'd

LMAO

i still don't see why it's such a big deal, as a mid roller, for the most part, the only time i worry about being BSed is from the folks that like to poise through a hit for the BS, or roll stabbers, since a roll BS is easy to do against anyone if you know what you are doing, thanks for that EWGF lol, it really doesn't make much of a difference if you mid roll or fast roll against mid roll BSers…so meh.

The difficult thing about the mid roll is that the counter BS timing is different. Since your walking speed is slower you have to time the counter bs earlier.

assuming you like to counter BS in the way i think you are thinking. if they are using a slowish weapon and miss, if you're close enough, you can still break their shoulder easily enough for a BS. if they are fishing, back peddling is usually enough and if not, they can eat a black flame for trying. covering the distance to punish spell casters is difficult on a mid roll build, but keeping your distance is a better option anyway.

i seriously don't see what the big deal is, maybe it's because i've had so much practice at it, i chose to mid-roll even before the DWGR was nerfed and still had a fairly decent success ration in PVP. unless you like to roll a hundred times before engaging, it's just not that big of a deal.

EDIT: of course 2v1 is a completely different animal, fast roll or flipping is practically a requirement.

Counter bs as when they fish for a bs by strafing constantly to your back. If you counter strafe and try to bs them you do a counter bs. If sucessful you can negate bs damage or if they're too slow to react, bs them instead.

Forum Pirate wrote:Did you read my post? I was likening emit force to great fire ball as great fire ball is more common. My argument was that emit force can and will hit in good hands because its aoe and the paltry magic defense that black iron armor provide would do little to stop you from losin upwards of 1/3rd of your hp.

I'm not nor was I suggesting that the mid roll is useless. I can and do use it. I am simply trying to explain the flaws in your build and strategy so you can correct where necessary. If you don't want to listen though, its not me who will be affected so whatever.

all builds have flaws, that's not really the issue. the issue is mid-rolling and it seems like everyone assumes tat a mid roller will get torn appart. also the term "in the right hands" generally means that anything can be effective against any sort of build, hence, "in the right hands". but for the most part i'm not too worried about spell casters, because their only advantage is either lag or they are super skilled in which case their is no defending against it anyway, so it's sort of a moot point.

also in the rock paper scissors style of defense that is used for dark souls, i prefer fire defense over magic. i could stack my magic defense but then i would be vulnerable to fire and the argument starts all over again.

http://mmdks.com/hwl

The physical loss amounts to nothing as you still hit 400 in all but strike which is onle 6 shy and your elemental defenses get a net gain. (diminishing returns hits at about 350 btw)

Aiming aoe spells isn't especially difficult. Its easier than parrying, and many people do that regularly. It doesn't even require timing except at really long ranges. Up close its as simple as casting at your own feet.

Also, emit force is like force and wog in that if it hits, you are stunned no matter your poise.

Forum Pirate wrote:http://mmdks.com/hwl

The physical loss amounts to nothing as you still hit 400 in all but strike which is onle 6 shy and your elemental defenses get a net gain. (diminishing returns hits at about 350 btw)

Aiming aoe spells isn't especially difficult. Its easier than parrying, and many people do that regularly. It doesn't even require timing except at really long ranges. Up close its as simple as casting at your own feet.

Also, emit force is like force and wog in that if it hits, you are stunned no matter your poise.

Ahh but the higher their poise the lower their chance of getting knocked down. Which means you can stunlock some people to death (though I'm not sure if Emit force is fast enough for that)