The true essence of Dark Souls

I really doubt that trolls have limits Hydregion. But if I was to by accident cause the player to kill an npc they needed I say sorry, offer some tips, give out my phantom to aid them and perhaps give them some items they need.

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
Also Serious_Much I don't know why I find that funny.

I'm the unofficial court jester. Just slap a cool hat on me and watch my awesome cossak.

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Give me a sl and we'll see. Wait why Anor Londo?

Also Serious_Much I don't know why I find that funny.

SL 40. My main residence is Anor Londo because of the giant rotating platform I can always mess up before I kill them.

Then it's a...wait what system you play Lunar? Sloth9230 I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Soris Ice Goldwing: Get them to kill the Giant Blacsmith

Oh that's what you meant. Yeah that would mess them up but if one kills the one in the parish then the player can't upgrade any weapon down the normal, raw, divine and occult paths. Then that's just cruel.

Xbox sadly

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Oh that's what you meant. Yeah that would mess them up but if one kills the one in the parish then the player can't upgrade any weapon down the normal, raw, divine and occult paths. Then that's just cruel.

You cannot be invaded in that area. I think the only Blacksmiths that are in invasion areas are Vamos and the Giant.

Concerning griefing, I didn't mind it until recently when I'd fight off people with obviously twinked gear for more than 10 minutes at a time only to be one-shotted by a hornet ring BS or a UGS.

LunarFog wrote:Xbox sadly

Then we a fight! Or whatever it is.

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:

LunarFog wrote:Xbox sadly

Then we a fight! Or whatever it is.

We have a fight!

Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:

LunarFog wrote:Xbox sadly

Then we a fight! Or whatever it is.

Whoa there. I'm not making any dates. I just told you where I spend my time. You're just going to have to see if you get lucky and find a person spamming every poison/toxin weapon, spell, and item in the game invades you or your host.

I don't really know why, but I do find watching those griefing videos funny as hell =P although I'd never do it, watching those vids made me lmao '-'

I can understand what people are saying, it's not exactly the coolest thing to do, but people have fun with the game the way they see fit, and if doing that kind of thing is fun for them, why not? If the griefer "forces" the player to kill an important NPC...well...that's what New Game+,++,+++,++++ are there for, it's not exactly ruining the game for them, and in all honesty, it is a game, try and have fun when sh** happens to you as much as when you achieve what you wanted.

azamuth, look at it this way. assume lunar makes a brand new player kill the undead merchant. we're gonna assume he DIDN'T take the master key, and hasn't bought it yet, nor the bottomless box. that just ruined 2 parts of the game for him completely. he may not realize it, but that means no magic from griggs, and he has to carry all his ****. what the hell kind of masochist would continue playing a game where his entire game just got messed up? griefers lower the amount of new people in the potential player pool, before they can actually acclimate to DS. people who could be excellent players, PvE or PvP. but they don't get the chance cause some *** thought it was funny to make their life miserable. how is that funny? thats quite literally killing the community

Getting a new player to attack an NPC is just dirty. You're not just killing them which is a minor setback, you get them to permanently mess up that playthrough, when a lot of new players don't realize you can attack NPC's or be significantly penalized for doing so.

I don't personally think it's cool to force people to break their games, nor would I do it, but I wouldn't judge someone like Lunar for doing so. The whole point of a game is to enjoy it the way you see fit, that means letting BB glitchers and Dragon head glitch(now patched out), massacre new players or even screwing them over completely.

If it was done to me I would either start over(which I'm oft to do anyway as I'm rarely satisfied with my builds), or not unhollow, if I need to kindle I suicide after or even go offline completely if I need to avoid invasions.

I realise a lot of new players are intimidated enough by the game as it is without griefers around, but in my opinion a key component of DkS is learning your boundaries and how to deal with them. Don't like invasions? Don't unhollow. Don't want gravelording or other forms of hollow invasions? Play offline.

densetsushun wrote:The whole point of a game is to enjoy it the way you see fit, that means letting BB glitchers and Dragon head glitch(now patched out), massacre new players or even screwing them over completely.

Clearly it's not the point of this game if it got patched out.

densetsushun wrote:Don't like invasions? Don't unhollow.

Who says they don't like invasions? Not wanting someone to come in and permanently ruin your current play through is not the same thing. Invasions are a gameplay feature. New players have every right to test it out for themselves, without getting griefed.

LunarFog wrote: I don't affiliate myself with anything. . . The Dark Souls community is great and all, but if what I do causes people to think less of it then it's not my problem.

Whether you realize it or not, the fact that you have an account here makes you affiliated with this forum. If I search up "LunarFog" and "Dark Souls", your threads are the first things that show up on google. I actually wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on this forum were former victims of yours

has no one heard the saying "you only have rights so far as they do not infringe upon the rights of others?". its all well and good to play within the games parameters, and glitching is NOT an intended parameter. just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. as for griefing, thats a touchy subject at best. its frowned upon, but completely ruining a new players run through could mean them quitting the game. that lowers the player base. go ahead and kill em all you like, but messing with a completely new player like this is just dirty. how would you feel(back then, not now, when you can rationalize it) if you just killed the 1 and only vendor you found before grabbing 2 important objects? a majority of people would say "screw it" and stop playing. don't try to rationalize griefing with knowledge no new player could possibly have. Don't want invaded? don't unhollow. most new players DON"T KNOW THAT. they don't know ANYTHING about the merchants themselves, and they can't possibly know that getting invaded and griefed isn't a game-ending experience. using end-game knowledge to rationalize the beginning is beyond retarded.

I'm okay with all kinds of griefing except for killing npc's. I used to, in DeS, run ahead of a host in the level as an invader and attract all the enemies into a central point, like in 4-1. That was hell for them.

I wish the alluring skull was just as useful as soul remains.

About Griggs, the player would still be able to free him, since killing the Undead Merchant gives you the Residence Key, which is used to free him. (I kill him all the time, so..ah..yeah xD)

And like I said, I do understand both sides of it, I know what griefers do is wrong, and could potentially waste an entire run through of a new player, but if you analyze it a bit, on a New Game+ run he would have them all back, and the game actually needs the player to do more than one run through to actually get all things possible from it. I lost count of how many times I ended up killing Solaire because I was testing new AoE attacks with him near me XD~ and I want to complete his "quest" and save him.

And besides, some griefers don't make you kill your NPC merchant, I know I encountered a few who simply used a Dragonslayer Bow on me in Anor Londo(you know, the part with the painting guardians high above the ground...@.@)that type is just funny as hell. But you do get some trying to lure you towards a NPC, so I try staying where I can have space to fight them, and away from any NPC who might be near.

didn't anyone learn anything from watching looney toons? i'm declaring open season on Nybbles! come grief me! i dare you! i double dog dare you!

grieffing only works if you decide to play their game. try to grief them in return, let them hang out in the poison swamp by themselves, let them waste their time, choose your battle ground and make them come to you. flip bridges, use plunging attacks and choke points. it's not like grieffing is a one way avenue only open to Darkwraiths. don't indulge in a Darkwraith's miscreant ways by giving them what they want.

seriously, i have no idea why this bothers so many players. it's not like you can actually "lose" at Dark Souls, it's pretty hard for an invader to cause so much havoc that it renders the game unplayable. at worst, you might have to change your original plans for your build. big deal. besides, if you let yourself get suckered into killing an NPC, well, that's on you for being an idiot.

Found those videos boring, not even good griefing. My minimum standard of competence for a griefer is that they need to be able to hit with a DSB in the rafters at least 50% of the time. There should be some sort of entrance exam or something based on this, because that guy was terrible. And taking 20 minutes to poke people to death with a demon's spear seems exhausting. The funniest part was that when he tried to fight for real he often got pummeled.

Like I said, I don't agree with it and wouldn't do it, but it's part of the game mechanics. Yes, the BB/Dragon head glitches were patched out, but we can't infer whether the devs didn't intend for the glitches to be there or whether they simply didn't want people to glitch as much as they did.

The way I see it, a lot of you are arguing from a moral standpoint, and that just doesn't fly in a game. If it's within the game mechanic then there shouldn't be a reason it isn't allowed unless it's a highly moderated community like an MMO. Yes, it sucks for new players and beginners who know nothing and get goaded into making the biggest mistake of their playthrough, but as I've stated, they have options.

Again, I'm not arguing that I agree or condone the behaviour, I'm not even arguing that it isn't a big deal, I'm arguing that griefers grief because they want to do it, even if it's at the expense of another, and that we shouldn't let our moral viewpoints dictate how someone else does what they do.

Anyone arguing the "you have rights unless they infringe on the rights of others", I agree entirely, in real life. This is a game, where rules like these don't apply unless it's moderated as such. This is why MMO's have rules against it and DkS doesn't. It's not even a traditional multiplayer setup.

befowler wrote:Found those videos boring, not even good griefing. My minimum standard of competence for a griefer is that they need to be able to hit with a DSB in the rafters at least 50% of the time. There should be some sort of entrance exam or something based on this, because that guy was terrible. And taking 20 minutes to poke people to death with a demon's spear seems exhausting. The funniest part was that when he tried to fight for real he often got pummeled.

I find that most of them do.

This is kind of a stupid discussion. It's built into the game and is 100% avoidable. Don't like it? Don't do it.

What if lunar is greifing us by starting this topic just to toll us?