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    Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

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    Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight Empty Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by justwant2play Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 am

    Today got summoned by a host dressed in full Smough gear at Oolacile Township to fight Manus. It was just me and him (no other phantom). Got to the boss area. Guess what? Guy just stands against the barrier wall and drinks his Estus while my Teutonic princess fights off Manus alone (with no sorcery, miracles, or pyro). Miraculously, I was able to slay Manus.

    Has anyone experienced this as a phantom helping a host fight a boss?
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    Post by Slarg232 Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:21 am

    Typically if I summon someone for a Fight I'll sit back and chuck fireballs instead of running in, solely because if I die then everyone dies.
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    Post by GenericUsername Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:23 am

    I've had hosts who go back to heal and such but I don't think I've ever had one that just completely hid.

    Also, manus becomes crazy easy with silver pendant and sif so I've never even needed help there.
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    Post by barrywilkins Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:28 am

    I've seen this too much for my tastes. If you ask me, a host who depends on his phantoms shouldn't be progressing. Maybe I've been a little burnt out on the amount of people I see completely using phantoms like their own personal driver and will leave to the wolves the second anything goes awry. I may be here to help you but, that doesn't mean I want to die for you if theres no reason it had to happen. I've had more than a few hosts refuse to even give me a drink while fighting the four kings even though they were just hanging out at the start watching me fight them. There's a certain term for these kinds of hosts out in the wilderness: food. And I intend to take myself a bite.
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    Post by Seignar Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:35 am

    I do a practice of usually staying far out of the fight when I host (For example: Staying far out of range of Super Orstein and shooting him with crossbows or any ranged move) and letting my phantoms do the heavy hitting. Although a host that completely stays out of the fight is something new to me...
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    Post by reim0027 Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:54 am

    From a phantom aspect, if the host is going to die at the boss, I would rather him stay back and heal us. It is so annoying to get to a boss I can destroy, only to have the host charge in and get dead.
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    Post by GenericUsername Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:03 am

    Also slightly on topic, nothing hurts my DS ego more than getting summoned for the iron golem only to be bashed off the ledge.
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    Post by densetsushun Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:34 am

    From the perspective of a phantom, it sucks to have the host be lugged around like dead weight. If they can't do a halfway decent job of fighting the boss they shouldn't be there in the first place.

    From the perspective of a host, I can get how a boss just gets frustrating after trying countless times only to fail again and again. Ultimately though, if I summon, I actually want help and not someone else to do it for me, so you'll see me there on the battlefield as well, mind you I'll be more careful so my summons won't get banished for my mistakes.
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    Post by Sentiel Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:13 am

    If I can't handle the current boss as a host I back away and let phantoms handle the boss, but I always heal them and use some methond fo ranged attack to support them. I've had hosts doing the same and I'm fine with that, they don't need to join the battle, as long as they support me, I can handle it by myself.

    However, there are hosts, that not only back away from the fight, but they do nothing, no attack of any sort and there are even those that don't bother to heal their phantom/s, even though they do all the dirty work.

    I met hosts that just run into a corner and watched. No heal, attacks, support, nothing. Even though I love co-op, those guys really piss me off, so I usually stop fighting the boss, block and lure the boss towards the host and then run away, effectively switching roles. Sometimes I add a Well What is it until the hosts gets his senses back, or dies.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:23 am

    reim0027 wrote:From a phantom aspect, if the host is going to die at the boss, I would rather him stay back and heal us. It is so annoying to get to a boss I can destroy, only to have the host charge in and get dead.
    I'm there either to spirit bomb the boss or be a meat shield. In either case, the host should let me handle the dangerous crap. Thats why I'm there. Help me (ie with that healing or a ranged option) but stay out of harms way.

    Thats my co-op philosophy. If the host has to actually engage the boss, I'm not doing my job.
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    Post by SlakeMoth Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:02 am

    To be fair it's not always the host's fault. I summoned two players for help with Gwyn in ng+ and they set off so fast they left me chugging along in their dust. Not that they needed any help from me, the knights went down like ninepins on the way to the fog door. They were obviously working in tandem. They did the same with Gwyn, I hardly got a look in, so I concentrated on keeping them healthy and chucking the odd Great Lightening Spear to help out. They were great and I messaged them afterwards and said so.

    I don't summon often but when I do, I tend to hang back a little until I know what their m.o. is because I don't want to get in the way or get killed early on which is counter-productive, although I'm not afraid of mucking in when I can.
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    Post by Bioraptor Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:29 am

    I have known myself text the host and told them to stay back,the only request I ask is that they flask me when needed....It is alway's when I fight Seath the Scaleless do I ask for this request as I find it less problematic with less people fighting him.Also his middle tail is more acsessable without worrying about getting tailed bashed.......tongue
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    Post by Sentiel Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:36 am

    Don't remind me Seath. It's the worst fight to do with uncooperative host.

    My strategy is to stay back. Let host summon Seath and wait a bit before they procee to destroy his crystal. This is because he initially has his tail in ground, where I can't attack it.
    Destroying the cystal then stuns him for some time and I can cut off his tail nice and easy.
    Killing him afterwards is a cake, unless you get stuck and he starts to spam his tail attacks.

    But most hosts, either destroy the crystal too soon, too late, or want phantoms to do on ahead, making use all run around Seath like fools to cut his tail off.
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    Post by Bioraptor Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:49 am

    Sentiel wrote:Don't remind me Seath. It's the worst fight to do with uncooperative host.

    My strategy is to stay back. Let host summon Seath and wait a bit before they procee to destroy his crystal. This is because he initially has his tail in ground, where I can't attack it.
    Destroying the cystal then stuns him for some time and I can cut off his tail nice and easy.
    Killing him afterwards is a cake, unless you get stuck and he starts to spam his tail attacks.

    But most hosts, either destroy the crystal too soon, too late, or want phantoms to do on ahead, making use all run around Seath like fools to cut his tail off.
    As we now know Seath 1 on 1 is a ***** cat......you can to a degree control the fight.but you get two phantoms and a host fighting him an he turns into one usally FUBAR nightmare.
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    Post by reim0027 Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:27 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    reim0027 wrote:From a phantom aspect, if the host is going to die at the boss, I would rather him stay back and heal us. It is so annoying to get to a boss I can destroy, only to have the host charge in and get dead.
    I'm there either to spirit bomb the boss or be a meat shield. In either case, the host should let me handle the dangerous crap. Thats why I'm there. Help me (ie with that healing or a ranged option) but stay out of harms way.

    Thats my co-op philosophy. If the host has to actually engage the boss, I'm not doing my job.
    That's my philosophy too. The only difference is the sense of failure if the host engages the boss. I want the host sto do what he is comfortable with doing (without dying). Let me take care of the rest.
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    Post by Forum Pirate Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:40 am

    Its not actually if the host engages the boss or not. I can't control that.

    Its if they have to engage the boss. As in they have to bail me out or I lost the boss's attention and he's cornered the host. Thats when I've failed (at least to an extent)
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    Post by Sentiel Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:41 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats my co-op philosophy. If the host has to actually engage the boss, I'm not doing my job.
    This seems impossible with some bosses, especially the DLC ones to me. Care to share some tips?

    EDIT:
    Nevermind, you already answered me.

    Forum Pirate wrote:Its not actually if the host engages the boss or not. I can't control that.

    Its if they have to engage the boss. As in they have to bail me out or I lost the boss's attention and he's cornered the host. Thats when I've failed (at least to an extent)
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    Post by Walter_White Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:00 pm

    hmmm what's wrong with doing nothing?

    As a Sunbro by heart i don't mind what the host is doing. I'm there to do what the host wants (Guided Tour with all loot, or just bossrun) and to bring him through or die for him, as phantom it's my job - he didn't summond me to please me, or to be my personal nurse with his flask!

    The first thing i show a host is that i am able to heal myself, so he can keep HIS estus for himself. When a host gets killed several times by mob or boss and i get summond again, i tell him to stay back and keep the estus for himself...and drop him some humanity cauz he will need that more urgent than me.

    Although i am capable to kill every boss alone, i always try to summon other players for bossfight, because i want to see how other builds are working and how well they are working. I learn new tactics with every coop fight.
    I stood back doing nothing more than one time just watching the phantom - most of them are capable to kill the boss alone without my estus...well i heal them if i see they rely on my estus, but this can't be a real sunbro!

    Real Sunbros are capable of killing every boss alone without estus and won't react offended by a passive host!

    Praise the sun!
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    Post by Odinbear Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:12 pm

    Walter_White wrote:hmmm what's wrong with doing nothing?

    As a Sunbro by heart i don't mind what the host is doing. I'm there to do what the host wants (Guided Tour with all loot, or just bossrun) and to bring him through or die for him, as phantom it's my job - he didn't summond me to please me, or to be my personal nurse with his flask!

    The first thing i show a host is that i am able to heal myself, so he can keep HIS estus for himself. When a host gets killed several times by mob or boss and i get summond again, i tell him to stay back and keep the estus for himself...and drop him some humanity cauz he will need that more urgent than me.

    Although i am capable to kill every boss alone, i always try to summon other players for bossfight, because i want to see how other builds are working and how well they are working. I learn new tactics with every coop fight.
    I stood back doing nothing more than one time just watching the phantom - most of them are capable to kill the boss alone without my estus...well i heal them if i see they rely on my estus, but this can't be a real sunbro!

    Real Sunbros are capable of killing every boss alone without estus and won't react offended by a passive host!

    Praise the sun!

    Nicely put. Praise the freakin Sun!
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    Post by densetsushun Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:52 pm

    I gladly help anyone who's having trouble fighting the boss, I might even forgive those that lounge up top at Capra, I'll tank him for you. Just *** estus me when I need it.
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    Post by befowler Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 pm

    I don't mind doing most of the work so long as the host is free with the estus to keep me trucking. I coop in levels where I like the zone and the boss so I enjoy getting to do the fighting. Plus I'll often get re-summoned by the same host that way if something does go wrong, or even asked to help them in later areas, so it increases my overall coop rate a lot.

    My least favorite host is actually the uber-elite "pro" with funky gear and often, for some reason, no freakin' pants on. They're spamming the dried finger to show how fearless they are, trying to parry everything they meet, and inevitably going to fall off a ledge or eat a hilarious OHKO the second they walk through the boss fog gate. Almost always a waste of time.
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    Post by Sentiel Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:24 pm

    befowler wrote:My least favorite host is actually the uber-elite "pro" with funky gear and often, for some reason, no freakin' pants on. They're spamming the dried finger to show how fearless they are, trying to parry everything they meet, and inevitably going to fall off a ledge or eat a hilarious OHKO the second they walk through the boss fog gate. Almost always a waste of time.
    I get those sometimes as well. Those guys are hilarious to watch. One managed to die to Artorias before I even had a chance to go through the fog. lol!
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    Post by defacto Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:30 pm

    He was probably just frustrated from dying at Manus a ton of times and knew he would be useless if he entered the fight. So he stayed back and healed you instead.

    Manus is one of the hardest bosses in the game. A huge step above the normal bosses in the game.
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    Post by Walter_White Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:40 pm

    ...yes - he is a Dark Magic Spammer and Tennisplayer using you as a tennis ball...but it's always a funny fight even when he wins Wimbledon
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    Post by GkMrBane Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:50 pm

    The way I look at it is if im on NG then I dont need any help I do it myself with all the bosses Ng+3 and beyond is where I could actually use the help sad not like there ever around then.

    But if I do summon someone who looks like they can handle themselves I let them take care of it.

    Cause sometimes its just fun to watch.

    Now if the situation gets bad then I swoop in and save the day or if they just need a little help I use the bow.

    And If they die before beating the boss but I still manage to kill it I will see if I can summon them again and give them a slab or somthing of equal value.

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