by Dibsville Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:32 amIf there is another Patch before DS2 comes out, they should swap the Dark Orb and Dark Bead cast times, it literally says in Dark Beads description that it fires "succesive Dark Orbs", so 7 Dark Orbs at once for 1/5 the cast time. Dark Orb should have been the "Soul Arrow" of Dark Magic, with Dark Bead being the "Heavy Soul Arrow" of it, not the other way around.
+4
reim0027
Animaaal
Bloodpact91
Dibsville
8 posters
How they should fix dark magic
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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Dibsville wrote:If there is another Patch before DS2 comes out, they should swap the Dark Orb and Dark Bead cast times, it literally says in Dark Beads description that it fires "succesive Dark Orbs", so 7 Dark Orbs at once for 1/5 the cast time. Dark Orb should have been the "Soul Arrow" of Dark Magic, with Dark Bead being the "Heavy Soul Arrow" of it, not the other way around.
I agree , but they're not going to do anything about it.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Dark Bead is only powerful up close. Its the same way HCSM is powerful if all of them hit you.
Dark Orb on the other hand is powerful whether is hits you up close or from far away, and should be slower.
The only thing that should change is the required intelligence stat to use them. 16 intelligence is ridiculous imo.
Dark Orb on the other hand is powerful whether is hits you up close or from far away, and should be slower.
The only thing that should change is the required intelligence stat to use them. 16 intelligence is ridiculous imo.
reim0027- Moderator
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If Dark Bead had a slow casting time, it would be worthless. Maybe a good solution would be to treat it like HCSM/HSM. The more intelligence you get, the more orbs you have.
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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reim0027 wrote:Maybe a good solution would be to treat it like HCSM/HSM. The more intelligence you get, the more orbs you have.
I agree, with maximum of 7 orbs coming at 36 INT
To be honest though, I have no problem with the dark magics, they're all dodgable, if you get lured into coming in close enough and give a mage enough time to fire off their proverbial shotgun then it's your own damn fault.
reim0027- Moderator
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I duelled a mage (he was 120, I was 55). But, I only had a gold tracer. No reach. In order to hit him, I would have to get too close and take all the beads to the face (which would be a OHK). So, I roll turtled at medium range until he put away his catalyst. Then, I engaged him. I was able to easily dodge all the Dark Beads, pursuers, and combinations. After the fight, I sent him a PM apologizing for the turtling, but it was necessary with his spells. He replied it wasn't a problem, he is a glass cannon and that is the risk he took.
Moral of the story: don't bum rush someone when they have a catalyst out. Dark Bead OPness is solved.
Moral of the story: don't bum rush someone when they have a catalyst out. Dark Bead OPness is solved.
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Not surprisingly, I agree with Reim. Nerfing it would once again make the mage class relatively weak in pvp.
What I have always recommended to players who are not quite agile enough yet to dodge dark magic is to stack defenses against magic. That means great magic barrier, crest shield, high hp, high magic defense armor. Vow of silence works perfectly in these sort of situations. Although a short duration body buff spell, vow forces a mage to change tactics at the start of battle. This is usually enough to gain the advantage and use melee to win. Another tactic is the mage tank. A build designed to mid roll with say havels and gmb that uses dark magic itself. Most mages carry dusk crown coupled with low hp and that makes for a short fight verses tank mage.
Just some suggestions...
What I have always recommended to players who are not quite agile enough yet to dodge dark magic is to stack defenses against magic. That means great magic barrier, crest shield, high hp, high magic defense armor. Vow of silence works perfectly in these sort of situations. Although a short duration body buff spell, vow forces a mage to change tactics at the start of battle. This is usually enough to gain the advantage and use melee to win. Another tactic is the mage tank. A build designed to mid roll with say havels and gmb that uses dark magic itself. Most mages carry dusk crown coupled with low hp and that makes for a short fight verses tank mage.
Just some suggestions...
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You guys all have good points, although I would like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable, as right now Great Soul Arrow does more damage at 16 INT anyway, plus Dark Orb does not home in like the Soul Sorceries. I liked reim0027's idea of the orbs scaling with your INT, higher means more orbs. But you have to remember that one bead does ~3/5 the damage of Dark Orb, and the chance of ONLY one bead hitting is very slim, even from a distance. It's normally 3+ or it doesn't hit at all, so either way, Dark Orb is weaker no matter what. Even if Dark Bead doesn't get nerfed, (I don't see why it should), I'd like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable.
Last edited by Dibsville on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Dibsville wrote:You guys all have good points, although I would like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable, as right now Great Soul Arrow does more damage at 16 INT anyway, plus Dark Orb does not home in like the Soul Sorceries. I liked Serious_Much's idea of the orbs scaling with your INT, higher means more orbs. But you have to remember that one bead does ~3/5 the damage of Dark Orb, and the chance of ONLY one bead hitting is very slim, even from a distance. It's normally 3+ or it doesn't hit at all, so either way, Dark Orb is weaker no matter what. Even if Dark Bead doesn't get nerfed, (I don't see why it should), I'd like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable.
-Dark Orb IS useable. Cast Dark Bead and then Dark Orb, the timing throws people off, and Dark Orb gets a decrease in casting time of 22% at 45 dex. Its fine the way it is.
-1 bead = 3/5 damage of a Dark Orb...I need proof that seems extremely innaccurate imo. Please give a link or something, I would love to know that for sure. If I'm wrong in saying that is innaccurate I apologize. But that number seems like misinformation.
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Actually, if you do that, people normally assume you are casting Pursuers, and will immediately try to backstab you or stunlock you to death, and even if they don't get there in time, they'll be close enough to completely evade the orb, it will just fly over their head. I've tried tricking people with that MANY times, and after 3 days of trying, that is what happened. And about the damage, I'm just giving and approximation from what I'VE SEEN. I did some testing at the bonfire in the upper Burg, Dark Orb did around 500 damage, and as far as I could tell, I was far enough away, (or so I though), that only one bead would hit, and it did about 280 damage.Animaaal wrote:Dibsville wrote:You guys all have good points, although I would like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable, as right now Great Soul Arrow does more damage at 16 INT anyway, plus Dark Orb does not home in like the Soul Sorceries. I liked Serious_Much's idea of the orbs scaling with your INT, higher means more orbs. But you have to remember that one bead does ~3/5 the damage of Dark Orb, and the chance of ONLY one bead hitting is very slim, even from a distance. It's normally 3+ or it doesn't hit at all, so either way, Dark Orb is weaker no matter what. Even if Dark Bead doesn't get nerfed, (I don't see why it should), I'd like to see Dark Orb ACTUALLY be usable.
-Dark Orb IS useable. Cast Dark Bead and then Dark Orb, the timing throws people off, and Dark Orb gets a decrease in casting time of 22% at 45 dex. Its fine the way it is.
-1 bead = 3/5 damage of a Dark Orb...I need proof that seems extremely innaccurate imo. Please give a link or something, I would love to know that for sure. If I'm wrong in saying that is innaccurate I apologize. But that number seems like misinformation.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Dibsville wrote:
Actually, if you do that, people normally assume you are casting Pursuers, and will immediately try to backstab you or stunlock you to death, and even if they don't get there in time, they'll be close enough to completely evade the orb, it will just fly over their head. I've tried tricking people with that MANY times, and after 3 days of trying, that is what happened. And about the damage, I'm just giving and approximation from what I'VE SEEN. I did some testing at the bonfire in the upper Burg, Dark Orb did around 500 damage, and as far as I could tell, I was far enough away, (or so I though), that only one bead would hit, and it did about 280 damage.
Then you need practice setting it up. Saying you can get backstabbed by casting something is not a reason to say it needs adjusted. It is what we casters live with. I dont have the problem you describe, and some pro players in this forum dont either.
I never cast DB or DO up close, its just asking for a problem.
Thats not enough for me to believe 1 bead does 60% damage of Dark Orb.
That is saying if Dark Orb does 700 damage. Then all 6 beads wouldhit for 2520...seems extremely innaccurate.
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That would seem innacurate.... but from my experience, Dark Orb doesn't even do 700 damage,(Dusk Crown, Bellowing, Manus with 44 INT 21 STR), yet my Dark Bead could easily do 1700 damage. I'd like to set up something to actually figure out how much one bead does in comparison to DO, but I haven't really found the time.Animaaal wrote:Dibsville wrote:
Actually, if you do that, people normally assume you are casting Pursuers, and will immediately try to backstab you or stunlock you to death, and even if they don't get there in time, they'll be close enough to completely evade the orb, it will just fly over their head. I've tried tricking people with that MANY times, and after 3 days of trying, that is what happened. And about the damage, I'm just giving and approximation from what I'VE SEEN. I did some testing at the bonfire in the upper Burg, Dark Orb did around 500 damage, and as far as I could tell, I was far enough away, (or so I though), that only one bead would hit, and it did about 280 damage.
Then you need practice setting it up. Saying you can get backstabbed by casting something is not a reason to say it needs adjusted. It is what we casters live with. I dont have the problem you describe, and some pro players in this forum dont either.
I never cast DB or DO up close, its just asking for a problem.
Thats not enough for me to believe 1 bead does 60% damage of Dark Orb.
That is saying if Dark Orb does 700 damage. Then all 6 beads wouldhit for 2520...seems extremely innaccurate.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Dibsville wrote:
That would seem innacurate.... but from my experience, Dark Orb doesn't even do 700 damage,(Dusk Crown, Bellowing, Manus with 44 INT 21 STR), yet my Dark Bead could easily do 1700 damage. I'd like to set up something to actually figure out how much one bead does in comparison to DO, but I haven't really found the time.
To properly do that experiment, imo, you would have to use a buddy.
They would have to stand still to avoid criticals, and just cast them both at point blank range. We know DB has 6 beads, so there's no reason to try and land 1 bead.
I love the thought of this ratio. I'd love to see the results or try and help maybe later this week.
You have planted a seed in me....get your mind out of the gutter forum...
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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I thought Dark Bead fired off 7 Beads? (3 left, 3 right, one middle) I usually cast it as a distance on my mage because, well, that's obviously what dark bead was made for, spread. It's an amazing finisher because people aren't expecting you to fire off a dark bead from that far away, and in a *somewhat* 'confined' space, the spread will cover the area (if you fire it from on corner of the Burg PvP spot, by the time it reaches the other corner it would spread across both walls).Animaaal wrote:Dibsville wrote:
That would seem innacurate.... but from my experience, Dark Orb doesn't even do 700 damage,(Dusk Crown, Bellowing, Manus with 44 INT 21 STR), yet my Dark Bead could easily do 1700 damage. I'd like to set up something to actually figure out how much one bead does in comparison to DO, but I haven't really found the time.
To properly do that experiment, imo, you would have to use a buddy.
They would have to stand still to avoid criticals, and just cast them both at point blank range. We know DB has 6 beads, so there's no reason to try and land 1 bead.
I love the thought of this ratio. I'd love to see the results or try and help maybe later this week.
You have planted a seed in me....get your mind out of the gutter forum...
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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I actually thought it was 5 lol. But the wiki states 6. If you can verify 7, then do so and request a change to the wiki. That would be very cool of you.
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Loading up the mage right now.Animaaal wrote:I actually thought it was 5 lol. But the wiki states 6. If you can verify 7, then do so and request a change to the wiki. That would be very cool of you.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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Yes, there are 7 beads per cast. someone needs to change the wiki if it says 6. I just counted several times, and I also took a video and paused every cast. I can effectively say there are 7 beads per cast.Dibsville wrote:Loading up the mage right now.Animaaal wrote:I actually thought it was 5 lol. But the wiki states 6. If you can verify 7, then do so and request a change to the wiki. That would be very cool of you.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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If you want more proof, go to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ3yMO8eSA and pause at 1:19, you can very CLEARLY see that he fires off 7 beads.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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I count 7. Bravo 
Here's wiki
Usage
•Fires 6 small magical orbs in a horizontal pattern.
•Out of all of the sorceries this is by far the fastest spell. When all 6 orbs hit at close range the damage makes it one of the strongest spells in the game. One of the best spells to use at close range.
Someone give this guy a vote.
***I owe u 1 vote****
Here's wiki
Usage
•Fires 6 small magical orbs in a horizontal pattern.
•Out of all of the sorceries this is by far the fastest spell. When all 6 orbs hit at close range the damage makes it one of the strongest spells in the game. One of the best spells to use at close range.
Someone give this guy a vote.
***I owe u 1 vote****
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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I'll be testing Dark Orb and Dark Bead to see the real damage difference. I'll post it here later (may take a couple days, going to make a new file with 16 INT and Sorcerer's Catalyst for the pure damage.)Animaaal wrote:I count 7. Bravo
Here's wiki
Usage
•Fires 6 small magical orbs in a horizontal pattern.
•Out of all of the sorceries this is by far the fastest spell. When all 6 orbs hit at close range the damage makes it one of the strongest spells in the game. One of the best spells to use at close range.
Someone give this guy a vote.
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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Sweet. But I'd have 2 different magic defense references to compare averages to. Say the skellies in the Burg, and the skellies in Duke's. Just to make sure it is a consistant average and not lowered by magic defense hidden scalers.
I dont know how to edit teh wiki or I would. I'll try later.
I dont know how to edit teh wiki or I would. I'll try later.
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Animaaal wrote:
Someone give this guy a vote.
Done, well deserved +1 for spotting 7
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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Dibsville wrote:Loading up the mage right now.Animaaal wrote:I actually thought it was 5 lol. But the wiki states 6. If you can verify 7, then do so and request a change to the wiki. That would be very cool of you.
Who the hell doesn't have a wiki account? jeez.
I'll check now, but I will presume mildred already took care of it
Serious_Much- Moderator Trainee
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Apparently not, I've edited it for you 
I have to say though, I've had a character using bead for all of 1 week and I knew about this, what the hell?
I have to say though, I've had a character using bead for all of 1 week and I knew about this, what the hell?
Maneater_Mildred- Chat Moderator
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Serious_Much wrote:Apparently not, I've edited it for you
Assumption is the brother of *** ups.
I stay away from editing, don't want to mess stuff up. :drunken:
