Here's to hoping they greatly narrow the backstab hitbox for DKS II

Rynn wrote:You're using a falacy in that argument by saying "We might as well do X or Y, ecause it's pretty much the same thing". No, removing multiplayer is completely different. Don't say stupid things, they don't help your point.

reim0027 wrote:Is that even possible to do though? For the game to know where you are on someone else's screen?

steveswede wrote:

Rynn wrote:You're using a falacy in that argument by saying "We might as well do X or Y, ecause it's pretty much the same thing". No, removing multiplayer is completely different. Don't say stupid things, they don't help your point.

I said it because you were saying stupid things (it was sarcasm). You are saying stupid things because you are complaining about PvP issues in a PvE game. BS would not be an issue to people like you if multiplayer wasn't there, elemental weapons wouldn't be an issue to some people if it was just a PvE game. Your arguments are based from a PvP perspective much like the people complaining about elemental weapons, I have never heard a genuine complaint why BS ruin PvE.

Stop treating DkS like Street fighter, it is not a fighting game, it's balance is in relation to the player vs their world.

bla wrote:To answer the topic:

In my opinion backstabs add respite in a game that should only offer it in bonfires

In PVE it makes for some repetition.

There are reasons to dislike this mechanic, but for me, whats really annoying is the "stop everything, I'm doing a backstab" aspect.
In close combat (real or not) getting behind your opponent is an advantage and the opponent should be punished for allowing so. However, consider how this happens in dark souls:
You're facing a guy with an ultra greatsword, he swings and misses by a mile, you're behind him and the inevitable happens. Problem is, you're wielding a great hammer.
Now, I don't even appreciate the immediacy of the backstab mechanic with a dagger almost like a freeze button but doing it with a huge weapon just feels incredibly silly.
Yes, we're talking about a game where you can block attacks that would shatter worlds, not to mention your character, but somehow that's a lot more believable than "backstabing" with smough's hammer.
That infested barbarian is swinging his club. I'm behind him but the swing is still gonna clip me a bit: no problem, just interrupt his attack with a backstab... he even stops his mad dash just for me. :shock:

In combat evasion is an art form but in dark souls said art is unbalanced. A guy swings his halberd in PVP while the other guy sidesteps. There is an opening for a successful attack. If there was no backstab but simply increased damage from a back attack a player would ponder: should I waste precious microseconds trying to go for extra damage or just strike with something that is sure to land.
As it stands in dark souls, that doesn't apply because an attack from the side performs as it's supposed to whereas the backstab "ignores" the rules. There is no wind up to an attack and weapons all perform alike barring critical damage. It's actually safer to go for the back because the attack is immediate.
Without this mechanic sneak attacks and back attacks would actually see a lot more action from weapons that are supposed to perform them like say a dagger, so yeah for me back attacks just detract from one of the best games I've ever played.

Just go for increased damage, poise break, knockdown, anything but that fixed animation.
Or hell, use it but make it act like a normal attack with normal windup that lands spectacularly and doesn't make you invincible.

Rynn wrote:While these are all avoidable, it raises the question... Why is a feature that is never used appropriately, in PvE or PvP situations, and rather adds a frustrating and downright unfair tactic to our arsenals included in the game?

crbngville2 wrote:Backstabs existed in DeS and have been carried forward to DkS. Removing backstabs IMO changes too many of the existing mechanics. Getting rid of P2P will go a long way to reducing lag and the associated problems it causes with the backstab mechanics. I have no problem with the hitbox window being made smaller, but overall the backstab needs to left in the game and without a huge amount of reworking it.

Stop treating DkS like Street fighter, it is not a fighting game, it's balance is in relation to the player vs their world.

Poliwrath wrote:

Stop treating DkS like Street fighter, it is not a fighting game, it's balance is in relation to the player vs their world.

Dark souls is whatever the player wants it to be.. for me dark souls is my street fighter.. maybe it isn't for you but i can tell you that everyone gets a different kind of enjoyment from the games they play. Dark souls has many aspects to it and trying to brush on off is unfair and rather self-absorbed.

Animaaal wrote:If you look at the pvp game style progressions from Demon's to Dark, you'll see they were intentional.

steveswede wrote:

Animaaal wrote:If you look at the pvp game style progressions from Demon's to Dark, you'll see they were intentional.

This is really debatable. On one hand you have the dragon covenant which was done for the purpose of 1v1 pvp. But on the other hand the PvP arena was a tacked on after thought to single player DLC.

No doubt more effort was put into DkS PvP to DeS, it's just that it still comes across as an afterthought. We shall see how much Fromsoft care for PvP when the next game comes out. If the improvements are still minor, I think it's safe to say that FromSoft don't think it's something that important.

steveswede wrote:I understand that BS are not fun for some people that PvP but wanting to alter something without thinking how it will affect PvE first hasn't got this series interest at heart.

Elifia wrote:So how exactly will it affect PvE then? All you said against removing backstabs was some stuff about defending from invaders (which is PvP), defeating higher SL players (also PvP) and dealing with multiple mobs (I'll address that in a second).

Right now, when I'm PvEing, practically everything I do is circle around enemies until they attack and I can do a backstab. It's by far the most effective way of dealing with mobs, but it does not make for very interesting gameplay.

As for the multiple mobs: Why did you pull that many mobs? You probably should have been more careful and pull them 1 by 1. If that wasn't possible, then you should see if you can find some narrow passage where they can only fight you 1 at a time. Point is, there are loads of ways to deal with multiple mobs that do not involve backstabs.

steveswede wrote:Do I really need to explain this to you? I take it you're experienced with the mechanics of Dark Souls so you should be able to think of many situations with each enemy you can backstab. I really can't be arsed to run through each enemy, situation or skill level if you already know it.