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    Gesture Backstabbing

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    chundersmiff


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    Post by chundersmiff Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:17 pm

    have you ever done a gesture backstab? like when someone is bowing and you just go up to their backs and kill them in 1 backstab? I've done it to low level players in Undead Parish about 20 times in the past 2 hours

    im pretty honourable
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    Post by Serious_Much Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:26 pm

    I'm ashamed to admit I've BSd someone while they were prostrating.... However they were gankers being arrogant SoBs so I didn't really mind when my hornet ringed UGS went through his chest silly
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    Post by reim0027 Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:26 pm

    I take it your post is sarcastic?
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    Post by Paladin Leeroy Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:28 pm

    Well, it's certainly happened to me before...

    Sometimes, when I'm feeling pretty Douchy... I will.

    But only when I have my +5, 51 Strength, Black Knight Great Axe, with a Hornet Ring angel
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    Post by Forum Pirate Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:33 pm

    I totally have. Why, you may ask?  

    Because he was running right up next to me wielding a rapier and bowing like 6 inches from me (instead of fighting.)

     My assumption was that he was baiting a bow so he could bs me, and being really obvious about it, so I preempted it and ejected him from my world.
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    Post by StiffNipples Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:36 pm

    I don't like people doing it to me so I don't do it to others.

    Doing it just fosters a sh*tty playstyle that I don't want to fight against.


    I have had it happen to me heaps, especially in the Burg, on PS3 almost all Darkmoons that invaded me while I was hosting duels would BS/shoot/hit me while I bowed/waved to them. In the end I just didn't trust any Darkmoons, which is sad for the good ones.

    So I don't do it, no only is it a d**che move, but it degrades the community, especially if you do it in 'honourable' areas.


    Some people will bait you to return bow so that they can do it to you, when this happens I just kick them out of it until they fight me.
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    Post by Latitoast Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:39 pm

    I don't do it, but I don't think gesture BSing is wrong.

    Someone took the risk of Gesturing, the other player should have the right to attack them during a point of weakness.

    You don't have to gesture, you can, but when someone decides to BS you or Pancake you, it's not their fault for BSing during a gesture, it's your fault for providing an opening for them to BS.

    And yes, my anti-flame suit has been zipped up.
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    Post by chundersmiff Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:39 pm

    StiffNipples wrote:I don't like people doing it to me so I don't do it to others.

    Doing it just fosters a sh*tty playstyle that I don't want to fight against.


    I have had it happen to me heaps, especially in the Burg, on PS3 almost all Darkmoons that invaded me while I was hosting duels would BS/shoot/hit me while I bowed/waved to them. In the end I just didn't trust any Darkmoons, which is sad for the good ones.

    So I don't do it, no only is it a d**che move, but it degrades the community, especially if you do it in 'honourable' areas.


    Some people will bait you to return bow so that they can do it to you, when this happens I just kick them out of it until they fight me.

     I bait a bow too, and it works most of the time
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    Post by Serious_Much Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:54 pm

    Latitoast wrote:

    And yes, my anti-flame suit has been zipped up.

    No need. We don't allow flaming to happen and if it does we'll deal with it swiftly once we are notified or see an offending post happy
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    Post by SirArchmage Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:26 pm

    Sure, I do it all the time.

    With my fist.

    Because I still want to be honorable in battle.
    But remind them "yes, I am in fact here to be a prick to you and ruin your thought that you are good at PvP"


    Oddly enough it hasn't been done to me much, mainly because I hardly ever gesture to someone if I know they are in range to run and BS me. Mostly what happens is I earn a Lightning Spear or a Soul Spear to the face, which can sometimes be just as deadly.
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    Post by Sentiel Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:18 am

    I drop a Hello carving. It's usually fast enough to evade any ambushes.
    Also. Never do gestures when there's someone with high crit weapon close to you, or if the other person has CoD, or a catalyst in their hand.
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    Post by theGentleman Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:57 am

    I've done it plenty of times under various circumstances.
        More than once I have barreled around the corner in the Depths to BS a bowing invader - just proper spacing and timing and eReflexes. Couldn't have done it if I were actually trying but sheer luck is my highest real life stat. This leads to nasty messages.
       
      My biggest issue is that people feel the entitlement for every fight to be "honorable."
    It is a luxury, not the default. If I invade three guys mucking around, the first one to bow is getting BS'd because the fight very obviously is not equal and them bowing does not obligate me to some code of conduct that is highly specific to the individual.
       I've done the whole, "you bow, I bow" and then fought without using any dirty tricks and won only to get hatemail about using bleed weapons or poison throwing knives to cancel spells.

    People will feel cheated no matter the reason so long as they are on the losing end. I try not to be too cut throat but I feel crying about getting BS'd during a bow is the same as those invaders who attempt to minimize you win because they were only SL1 and you're on NG+ with a SL120 - they both knew the risks and took them.

    Bowing is basically expressing that you want a clean fight, most people would cite a code of conduct like chivalry or bushido as example of their expectations. One of the most popular practitioners of bushido was Miyamato Musashi - who showed up late to his most famous duel as a psychological tactic to unsettle his opponent.
        Point is, that you can't bring order from chaos through simple expectation - I have never been backstabbed during a bow because I don't bow but I have exploited this tactic both intentionally and otherwise because the situation warranted it.
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    Post by Lord of Ash Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:32 am

    Yep if they come in and whats up or bring it on or just keep waving I HATE WAVERS I also bs dkmoons who come into my world to buff im not an honorable player
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    Post by crbngville2 Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:08 am

    reim0027 wrote:I take it your post is sarcastic?

     ^lol^

    To the op:

    Only to remind Forest Hunters of where they are.Backstab
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    Post by Sentiel Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:21 am

    I also like to interrupt buffs of vaders if possible. It depends though...

    For example, on my Int build, if someone buffs, I'll either cast Pursuers to keep them from being overly aggresive thanks to their buff, or just make them eat a CSS. On my quality build, they get a shot from Composite Bow, or a nasty backstab from my Rapier.

    This is not Demon's Souls. Everybody could use Curse Weapon with little investment, but using CMW, SLB, or DMB in Dark Souls requires more serious stat investments. So if someone buffs, they're likely to have have a hybrid stats of Str/Dex with Int/Faith, which gives them acess to spells and melee and buff basically pools these two stats together. That is not an option my quality build has. The only similar thing I could do is use PW, but I'd rather not, as people will just wait it out and wait for it to kill me, or weaken me.

    This way, I got someone who has most likely a similar weapon as me, but with some 300 extra AR and nasty spells like DB and WoG to deal with. I have no obligation to let the other guy do this. If he wants to raise his damage this way, he has to do it with me trying to kill him for it. Not to mention that these guys are usually Falchion R1 spammers, or Large Club bs fishers, who are friggin annoying to fight even without their buffs and spell spam.

    All other buffs are ok with me, except for weapon buffs and TWoP. It's just that with me. It gets me hatemail, but I always reply "Don't like it, don't invade."

    Mind you, I'd like to have a Dex/Faith build on SL 100 that could buff as well, so I could buff when my opponent buffs, to be on equal footing, but I can't find a way to make such build happen for me. I always end on SL 110 no matter what. -__-


    Last edited by Sentiel on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To make Serious happy)
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    Post by Dibsville Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:17 am

    Yes, I do it all the time.

    But depends on Gesture, what they're wearing, and how they've acted in previous encounters.

    I won't even BS gankers on a Bow.

    Example: If I'm hosting in Oolacile, I see some guy invade with DST, and he does a Proper Bow. We fight, he does nothing but BS fish. Next time he invades, I won't be so inclined to not attack him while he bows.
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:22 am

    Sentiel wrote: It's just that with me. It gets me hatemail, but I always reply "My world, my rules. Don't like it, don't invade me."

    I love how you say that like they choose whose world to invade silly
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    Post by Sentiel Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:26 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Sentiel wrote: It's just that with me. It gets me hatemail, but I always reply "My world, my rules. Don't like it, don't invade me."

    I love how you say that like they choose whose world to invade silly
    Once someone uses an Eye Orb, the person should be prepared to face anything. There's no obligation to give your invader a "honourable" duel based on their own percepcion of honour. When I invade I'm ready for anything, but the same applies to my host as well. We all play by our own rules and no one said they have to be the same.
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    Post by AnCapaillMor Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:29 am

    Dibsville wrote:But depends on Gesture, what they're wearing, and how they've acted in previous encounters.

     This!!! i'm sick of giant Zwei dads with What is it, insta bs for me.
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:44 am

    Was just a casual observation sen, I have no mind to talk about the honour debate, that stuff was cool for a bit and gone over a year ago silly
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    Post by Sentiel Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:48 am

    Serious_Much wrote:Was just a casual observation sen, I have no mind to talk about the honour debate, that stuff was cool for a bit and gone over a year ago silly
    Fair enough.
    I edited it to this: "Don't like it, don't invade."
    Happy? silly
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:48 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:Was just a casual observation sen, I have no mind to talk about the honour debate, that stuff was cool for a bit and gone over a year ago silly
    Fair enough.
    I edited it to this: "Don't like it, don't invade."
    Happy? silly

    Sounds perfect winking
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    Post by TheMeInTeam Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:08 am

    I've done it on very rare occasions, like when someone pulls out the "well, what is it" following a backstab but I wasn't actually dead, so I BS them too since they gave me a freebie big grin.

    My most typical behavior against bows is to do nothing (if I remember the opponent favorably and have a safe distance, I might bow back).  My most typical behavior against buffs is to buff myself should I have one, otherwise backstab if close, and running attack if not close.

    I consider stamina grass a buff.  I WILL try to punish people using it.  Usually this is impossible unless they're close since it's very fast (and thus one of the more sensible buffs, combined with its accessibility), but if someone tries for it mid-fight, they're getting stabbed.

    I don't like to give myself an advantage before the fight starts usually, because it takes the challenge out of fighting somebody.  That said, I have absolutely no problem with "Bow Stabs".  If anything, bows eat up a few seconds that could be used to actually fight.
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    Post by Sentiel Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:24 am

    There's been an interesting topic about Green Blossom adiction. After reading it, I gave up on using them. However, when I fight someone who does, or even worse has Grass Crest Shield to boost Stamina recovery even further, I use Green Blossoms as well. It's very unfavourable if the other person knows you didn't grass and uses it against you.

    Item buffs like grass and resins are ok with me. Doing them before the fight is fine. Resins add little damage and I can grass as well, so it's no biggie for me, but that's where my kindness ends. happy

    As for gesture stabbing. If I see gankers and they do a gesture of any kind, I try to put on my Hornet Ring and try to go for OHKO. Rapier usually does a LOT of damage like this, but doesn't kill. Still, it puts the player on defence, so I have a few seconds to either finish him, or deal with the other guy/s. Since in most cases it's the host who gestures, it makes the fight that easier. A little of spell spam, or weapon spam on wake up usually takes care of him.
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    Post by Back Lot Basher Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:28 am

    I've had this happen too many times, so now I don't gesture unless the other player is well away from me.  Otherwise I'll just fan my shield to wave at the person out of politeness.

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