Gesture Backstabbing

As for gesture stabbing. If I see gankers and they do a gesture of any kind, I try to put on my Hornet Ring and try to go for OHKO

I'm definitely out to kill the ganker, but sometimes it's stronger to lloyd's the host (can't estus phantoms, who often rely on it) and then throw out something fast like a WoG.  A lot of gankers that are willing to gesture at all when I'm close are waiting for me to close distance so their buddy can do something nasty (WoG, TWoP), so I'm hesitant to charge into that.  In practical cases unless I spawn on them I usually pull out a short bow harass and hang out somewhere precarious, and that seldom puts gankers in the mood to gesture .

TWoP generates a small effect in the area. It looks like small yellow streams coming from the ground. It's very easy to miss, but it's the first thing I look for after I spot gankers. It's a shame that TWoP doesn't affect everybpdy like VoS. It would made gankers a lesser threat.

I only invade for PvP and always bow, no matter what is before me (note: i only play Demons Souls, gave up Dark caus of hacker and forest mob all over Lordran)

If they bow back - fine honorable duel without grass
If they attack my bow, i take it as an ecxuse to take any measure to torture them. I don't simply kill em, no i first inflict poison and bleeding an then pancake them with a low damage Crescent Axe when they want to lotus/grass, or throw some knifes to stop them from eating anything. When they are nearly dead i let them grass and lotus and start over with my dual wield mercury uchi/kilij. When i get bored of them, i hit them with the 1h R1 of my Crescent Axe to throw them in an abyss, or let them bleed out / die to poison.

So it's theire choice, have a short honorable fight or beeing tortured for minutes.

Funny fact: Magic Spammer never bows and always attack my bow - i love to torture them, they play the easy way and i can show em how hard Demons Souls can be...but they never say thank you for that  

I never do gestures in DeS. Holding X button for the menu to pop up takes too long and I disabled motion sensor in my controller.

if they don't bow and don't attack my bow i assume a honorable fight...and wait for them to grass to switch to torture mode  

No,  I've never done it.

If you want to win with a "bow-stab", then just glitch.  Same difference imo.
(I am not interested in discussing the differences between bow-stabs, glitches and hacks.....please read between the lines...thank you).

I can respect the point of view that, "I'm here to kill you, and that's fun for me".

I cannot respect the, "Honor is for noobs".

I like good fights, and I like the established mentality carried over from 4-1.

I also look forward to the same mentality in Dark Souls 2.

Also, for the people that bow-stab all the time.....on the ps3, people can block you and slow down your pvp.  I wouldn't do it for that alone.

Not even kind of. Bow stabbing is taking an advantage your opponent has (foolishly) provided you with.

It is no different than punishing a missed swing.

relative

I bow before every match. For me, it's just like saying hello. And also signifies the start of the match. I don't remember the last time someone bs'd me while i was bowing.

Not in the least. Objective and factual.

Its your personal filter that makes it seem that way, ie through the belief that the fight has not started untill both people have bowed (not saying thats your belief, fyi,) but this is not actually true.

The conflict starts whenever someone decides to start it (in the loosest sense the conflict starts as soon as the invader enters your world, as positioning/stamina/resource management are very important from that moment on, with both players ideally looking for a way to maximise their advantage or minimise their disadvantage) and if you place yourself at a disadvantage during a conflict, it is entirely logical and fair for the opponent to exploit it.

@TooLeet

Same.

Also, just to reiterate the "I am there to kill you thing".

Before I took one of my int builds to sl 120 for the forest, he was a sl 30 DMB.   I invaded Sen's frequently, and I used the Dragon Slayer Bow.

When someone actually bowed to me, which was rare, I was usually **** and ready to "loosen my arrow"<----love ya Gough!  

I never shot them while bowing, but they would inevitably be standing on the bridge blocking when their gesture animation was complete, which inevitably led to them being knocked off the bridge.  

Again, I'm not trying to say everyone should NOT backstab a bow, especially in cases where they are obviously trying to set you up.

I just think the results are the same as having invisible Pursuers.  Whether or not one is glitching and one is not is almost irrelevant to the outcome....

...unless you're bow-stabbing with your fist, then I say, "whatever floats your boat I guess."

Forum Pirate wrote:Not in the least. Objective and factual.

Its your personal filter that makes it seem that way, ie through the belief that the fight has not started untill both people have bowed (not saying thats your belief, fyi,) but this is not actually true.

The conflict starts whenever someone decides to start it (in the loosest sense the conflict starts as soon as the invader enters your world, as positioning/stamina/resource management are very important from that moment on, with both players ideally looking for a way to maximise their advantage or minimise their disadvantage) and if you place yourself at a disadvantage during a conflict, it is entirely logical and fair for the opponent to exploit it.

Lol, you're thinking into this too much. I was merely stating my views of bowing. Which like i said, is like saying "hello." And i don't know why you're talking about it being "logical and fair for the opponent to exploit it" when i never disagreed lol.

@pirate

Its in reference to your use of the word foolish.

I say "magnanimous".

I could use invisible Pursuers when being invaded, and say that they should have used their red soap stone....

....tomato......tomahto.....

Animaaal wrote:@TooLeet

Same.

Also, just to reiterate the "I am there to kill you thing".

 
Yes.

"Hello"
"Let's get this over with"
"What's up"
"You're gonna be dead in a couple minutes"


Whatever it may be. It's just a gesture. If someone bs's me oh well, it's my own fault. Welcome to Dark Souls. Amirite?

@Leet

Ya.  Getting butthurt over the whole thing is ridiculous.

I do love the way the community has embraced the gesture features of the game though.  

Imo, it sets us apart from other communities.

For sure dude.

You can somewhat, show your opponent/team mate how you're "feeling." I have no other way of explaining it but you understand. Summoning a bro and being able to wave to him in the game is awesome.

Animaaal wrote:@pirate

Its in reference to your use of the word foolish.

I say "magnanimous".

I could use invisible Pursuers  when being invaded, and say that they should have used their red soap stone....

....tomato......tomahto.....

The difference is, I did not provide you with the opportunity to have invisible pursuers. It was no action on my part (you can do it with the rss too) that allowed it, nor can i do anything to prevent it happening within the context of a fight.


I can refuse to bow, and thus deny you your "invisible pursuers."


The result is the same, but by the same logic I can say there is no difference between winning a fight at sl 1 with a broken sword is no different than winning a fight by hacking infinite health at sl 120.

When the community duels against each other, we always bow.

When bowing to random, we risk the chance of getting backstabbed.

We all understand this, no point in going further, and certainly no point in over-analyzing such a simple topic.

/thread.

The results are practically the same though.  That's why I said to, "read between the lines".

bowstab = victory

invisible pursuers = victory

twod = victory

Unless you're using the bow as a set up, gesturing at someone is a sign of respect (most gestures), and punishing someone for that sentiment is up to the individual.

Play however you want, I'll NEVER tell someone how to play.  But I refuse to say,
"Oh you backstabbed my bow..gg  ".

As I said, the by the same logic, I can say there is no difference between beating your 120 with a sl1 with a broken sword and beating your 120 by hacking infinite hp.

Its just not true, even if the result is the same. (me winning.) One takes a great deal of skill, even if you suck, and one takes virtually no skill, even if you're a lesser deity, not to mention that there is straight nothing you can really do about infinite hp so long as I stay away from ledges.

It is not any different than punishing a missed swing. You don't have to like or enjoy it, but thats how it is.



@leet I'm not overanalysing anything. Merely applying logic from/behind competition to the situation.

Besides that, if I cannot back my assertions with solid logic, then how can I expect anyone to understand the points I am trying to make?

Forum Pirate wrote:......It is not any different than punishing a missed swing. You don't have to like or enjoy it, but thats how it is.....

Its vastly different.

Attacking poses a threat as to where bowing does not...again, unless they are trying to bait you.

You cannot know wether or not they are baiting, thus pragmatism dictates it always poses a threat. They could be baiting so they can buff as well.

In any case that is irrelivant. Blocking (inherently) poses no threat, and attacks from outside the range of the weapon pose no threat, but can (and should, if you intend to win) be punished.

Forum Pirate wrote:.....You cannot know wether or not they are baiting, thus pragmatism dictates it always poses a threat.....

It certainly does not.

By that logic, offering you a couch to sleep on because you've had too much to drink inherently implies I'm going to fondle you while you sleep....

...not saying I'm above that.






I kid I kid

Looking at the situation of Host vs. Invader, both the invader and the host should be considered a threat to each other as soon as the invader enters the hosts world.

The very presence of a red/blue phantom poses a threat and the situation should be approached as such.

Chivalry is real?  

It used to be outright rampant in this community, I'd hate to see it go away.