Gender Issue Discussion

I suggest people just do what I do, always split the check and hold the door open for everyone.

I also hold doors for everyone. Interesting story on the dating front. My senior year in college my eventual first wife and I started a mutual interest. I'd always been interested but was shot down freshman year so we'd been sticking to friends for the years in between. She lived off campus and I was in a dorm. She wanted to hang out one evening so I said let's go get dinner at the dining hall like old times.

So we're sitting and eating. I had maybe a vague notion at best she wanted to start something with me. She of course had to know I was likely still interested. We got into a conversation about male/female roles specifically regarding courtship. I mentioned that I found it perfectly normal for a female to ask a male out. We're speaking "hypothetically" eventually. In quotes since after a few minutes we both understood exactly what was going on. The conversation continues and she stops all of a sudden and says:

"I'm not asking you out Jeff." Despite both of us being reasonably intelligent and completely aware of not only mutual attraction but that we were at that very moment starting a relationship, she literally stopped the world just because of what gender roles she had in mind.

I found out from my roommate later that she'd been asking around about me (relationship status, who I'd been talking with, who I'd been talking about) for weeks.

Weeks. Sorry. That still boggles my mind. At any point she could have gone outside her "role" and had me.

By the way funny little aspect of a story.  My first girlfriend actually noticed me because we'd always arrive at school at the same time and I open doors for everyone so I'd always open the door for her.  So eventually one day she noticed me holding the door open for a guy and asked me about it, "Why did you hold the door open for him?"  I said, "Because I like to hold the door open for people."  She asked me why I always hold the door open for her and I said, "Because I like to hold the door open for people."  She said she had thought that I had always done it as a way of trying to gain her favor and I said that I just like to be nice to people for the sake of making them happy.  She thought that was really sweet and asked me out on the spot.

That's where the fun part of that story ends about, nightmare of a relationship.  But hey you never know how indiscriminate kindness can catch the eye of a person.  When you focus less on your own gender role maybe people around you will focus less on their own.

I hold the door for people too,doesn't seem like anyone cares though. Meh,least I have manners.

I didn't get much attention until I started showing off my Super Audio Matic So-.....

I'm not allowed to talk about that yet.

KrazykevS10 wrote:I hold the door for people too,doesn't seem like anyone cares though. Meh,least I have manners.

Probably because British people be polite. Holding doors isn't manners, it's being human

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w3Im35WGjI

So Nintendo just released a trailer for a game.

101 Wonder, seemingly a school for superheroes or something.  They introduced one of if not the main character.  A woman named Wonder Pink the Queen of Rage.  Complete with panty shots, her talk about love of fashion, pretending to be sweet and innocent then getting angry constantly shifting between moods.  Talking about missing meetings because she kept staying up going to parties and needed a super powder break.  With her whip and dialogue it seems a bit like a BDSM related character as well, talking about her beautiful whip punishing a robot for being a "bad boy."  

I've done a bit more looking and there are multiple characters to play as with different focuses, but wonder pink is the only playable female character.  This game is developed by Platinum Games and is being made for Nintendo.  So Nintendo might not have actually had anything to do with those aspects and that is just all Platinum.

 EDIT:  Also the comment section is not worth reading.  If I can point out a comment to give you the general tone.


"God Bless Japan for giving a big *** you to those Feminazis who hate cool female characters."

Serious_Much wrote:

KrazykevS10 wrote:I hold the door for people too,doesn't seem like anyone cares though. Meh,least I have manners.

Probably because British people be polite. Holding doors isn't manners, it's being human

You insult me sir! I shall have satisfaction!

I guess with the crowds in America,it means more over there. Less of a big deal when you have only one or two people walking down a main street or going into a shop.

Crowds?

You must mean cows. They don't appreciate doors being held open though

Yeah,our sheep don't seem to care much.The might even crap on the floor in disgust.

Casual thread about game becomes serious thread about gender issues
serious thread about gender issues becomes discussion of animals opinions of open doors.

Welcome to off topic ladies and gentlemen.

I don't have much to add to this discussion. There have been many good points (and many bad ones). The only thing I would say is this. Don't use your own personal experiences to project them as facts across the entire community.

There are 6+ billion people in this world. That dwarfs anyone's personal experiences. If are going to make broad gender-based statements as facts, use sources that encompass a reasonable slice of a population.

I appreciate doors being held opened for me as long as I'm close enough that I don't have to run to be considered polite myself. The whole thing is really kind of a ridiculously silly social construct. You don't hold the door opened for someone that's too close and you have no manners. You hold the door opened for someone that's close and you have manners. If they don't acknowledge you for holding that door opened, with a nod or a thanks or what have you, then they have no manners. If you hold the door opened for someone that's too far away and they don't run to get there then they have no manners. That's a lot for something so simple. I like to think those people that hold the door opened for you when you're like 100 miles away are just morons though. Making me run suddenly isn't polite. It just makes you a jerk. I like to stop and light a cigarette when I see someone doing it for me, like haha, you're an idiot. I'm not going inside at all! Put that on your pancakes buddy!

We should probably get back onto the topic of genders.

If I wanted to go really dark and deep I could mention a certain fictional race a guy I know was creating which I showed to Serious.  Talk about a saddening affair.

It's not I let the girl through and slam the door to the guy's face.
When I open the door, I hold it until I'm the last to come inside and I don't care if it's a male, or a female who enters. The only exception are places with very high traffic. I could end up holding the door for the whole day.

As far as paying for dinner goes, of course I pay for the meal. I invited the girl, so it' logical for me to pay.
On the other hand. I got invited by my coworker for lunch and she was upset that I refused to pay for her part of the meal, with replying that it was she who invited me.

Ever since I live with my lady, we share all finances. We moved past "mine/yours" and evolved it into "ours". With a few exceptions of course (like yes, you can use my toothbrush, but no you may not view my internet history). Just kidding.
Sometimes I pay for the meal, sometimes she pays. We don't care which one of use pays. It's usually the one who has more money at the time, or faster wallet draw. As for the door holding. I have poor health and so she actually holds the door for me sometimes. Something in me tells me it's wrong, but I don't voice it and am actually glad she does it, because it helps me.

I can confirm that many of my coworkers in shops were more favourable towards female customers. Especially in summer.
One such customer got a discount for no reason at all. Reason perhaps being a slightly revealing mini skirt? So I asked if I come in mini skirt, will I get the discount as well?
I for one didn't care about the customers gender. The only customers I disliked were bratty kids and those trying to rip the store off in one way, or another.

Tolvo, the game is made by Platinum, creators of Bayonetta. Nuff said.

http://tinyurl.com/kavqv4e

This is baffling, the fact that this went on for so long and then persisted after people finding out.  I should warn anyone this is one of the most disturbing stories of human actions I've ever read.  Let's just say the article is called The Ghost **** of Bolivia.

EDIT: The link works, but I have no idea what causes this weird extra coding, it isn't in the edit of my post and I can't remove it.

Tolvo broke the forum.

You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Tolvo zone.

Probably after I post an article about 130+ female being **** (Age 3 to 65) then having their community brush it under the rug and force everyone to forget about it while offering no therapy to the victims and telling them that they have to forgive their sexual assaulters, that it isn't a good time to start derailing and telling jokes.  Just a thought.

The saddest thing about that article is I'm not even surprised this happens. Female oppression still happens in many countries in the world. Sadly in many it can be tied to religion, some to government ignorance (intentional or not), but the fact is things like what Tolvo posted happens.

I'm no saying **** doesn't happen in other countries, and that people don't get away with it. But I@m glad it's taken much more seriously and my country deals with it in a much better way than some others do.

Yeah over here we're doing a bit better with it but we still have some issues.  One thing though is that people don't get held accountable generally for claiming they were ****.  Some are very angry about this, basically being able to label another person as a rapist without grounds then when it is considered false having no repercussions.  But there are reasons for this, such as that the amount of false **** claims is roughly in the area of 2% last time I checked.  There is also the idea of not shaming possible victims or making people question bringing attention to a rapist and trying to get them put in jail.  I know some that consider this sexist since a woman can just label a man as a rapist then have no actions taken against her if it is believed she was completely lying.

The thing is that the rules aren't exclusive, same thing goes for a man claiming he was sexually assaulted by a male or female to my understanding.  Most of it is male on female crimes, but it isn't gender exclusive.   There are the social stigmas still but the actual law is doing better in this area.

The Sorceress herself speaks out.

http://erinfitzvo.com/are-bosoms-in-video-games-offending-you/

Unfortunately the opinion of one actress whose livelihood depends on these kinds of roles can hardly be called researched testimony and adds nothing but one more "opinion" where we should be conversing trends and facts. - Her very use of the word "offensive" misses the point that sexism isn't offensive, it's harmful to human interaction. Proper language for proper discussion is quickly lost when we allow any opinion to become important.

Equally she is mixing in sexual utilization of breasts in games and breastfeeding in public, which are actually opposites in the sexism debate as if they were the same argument, which leads me to believe she is misguidedly assuming what all this "offense" is about and not understanding the issue people were bringing up.

Breasts are great. They can be sexy, they can be practical, they differentiate us even! That does not refute the fact that the inclusion of these character models extremized sexual features of the female and power features of the male, and continues to churn out the old tired men = power and females = sex. It is really a tiresome discussion when people from all places tune in and clumsily opine without actively researching cause and effect factors of our media consumption and how that applies to the perpetuation of societal problems.

I should not have to make clarifications in my posts about how "I really like sex" "I like my body" and "I love being sexy and appreciate femininity but" - the core of the issues highlighted are about both genders. Both men and women suffer from patriarchal sexism. It is bothersome for me to have to ask for a menu at a restaurant because the waiter assumed the male would order, but it is also insulting to my  husband that the waiter thought his chosen wife not capable of ordering her own food and put him in a situation where he has to make the decision or look"pssy whipped" . I do not want my child growing to think his role in life is to suck it up and be a man, and boys don't cry and he must have a job and be a success or he will have failed at life. My role in implementing the basis for those thoughts to occur is clear, however as discussed if media bombardment continues unchecked and unchallenged, we all absorb harmful ideas.

I don't think it is sexist to opening a door for a woman, it's a common courtesy (that I do often to others) and trying to pay for a date is a court method - hey I invited you out and showed you a good time and I'm so confident we can get somewhere I'll pay for this meal, give me a chance. Any female can and should do the same and not have to deal with being called too aggressive or a slut. I would find it much more offensive if the male demanded I wore a skirt and heels or if the female expected the male to pay (not to be confused with allowing the male to pay)

In short: be courteous to everyone, and court your prospective mates however way you wish or think will work. If you are not the kind of guy who gets down on one knee, you'll find a girl that matches you and is happy to drag you along to the civil registry I bet. These gender roles can be changed and, if we all realize its for everyone's benefit, will be soon.

I tend to agree, Fex.

So I asked if I come in mini skirt, will I get the discount as well?

"Probably, on the condition that you go into the back and switch into something else ASAP" lol.

Human psyche is an interesting thing for sure though.

Yeah over here we're doing a bit better with it but we still have some issues.  One thing though is that people don't get held accountable generally for claiming they were ****.  Some are very angry about this, basically being able to label another person as a rapist without grounds then when it is considered false having no repercussions.  But there are reasons for this, such as that the amount of false **** claims is roughly in the area of 2% last time I checked

2%?  A quick google search suggests that, but I wonder.  I'll look at it in more detail when I get the chance.  I wonder how it compares to false accusations in general.

Still, the recent NFL story about the guy who got locked up for many years only to have the "victim" admit she was lying outright later is one that is obviously going to draw anger, and rightfully so because it 1) damages credibility of claims to a small degree and 2) is a memorable example of an innocent person being punished and 3) resulted in no legal consequences against her whatsoever, aside from maybe civil stuff (I haven't followed the case in recent months).

It's one of the most hateful crimes in existence, comparable to torture and not too far behind murder.  Because of its nature and the burden of proof, however, it's a mess without good evidence...evidence that's difficult to provide in a timely fashion for someone who has just suffered such trauma.

On the flip side, you have idiot stuff like people becoming registered sex offenders because someone saw them wearing nothing while in their own house  .  I'm not sure how that's not a violation of the "offender's" privacy and a crime unto itself, but it's happened.