Low-level BB glitch griefers aren't the worst

Maybe we should stop talking about specific covenants and just say that people who gang up on single targets for kills are ****?

Is it possible to have 4 vs 1 in the forest? 2 hunters a dark moon and a dark wraith? That would be pretty hilarious, Better yet! a 5 v 1, darkmoon, wraith, dragon and 2 hunters.

Still, you can't really say this is ALL that goes on in the forest. I have fought plently of swell hunters and red phantoms while cantering through the forest, but I have faced jerks as well. People are just more inclined to remember the bad over the good imo. You get a bit of both no matter where you are.

The forest isn't really the place to go if you are looking for duels, just because of the farming nature it has, most hunters are very cautious on the side of being jerks themselves because they have had their share of 3v1 fights, If I see gold running through the forest I hide until I get a ally, and even then sometimes its a red who thinks he is butch and I get a 4v1 on my hands :/

W/e its just for fun, I have had plenty of fun 1v1 in the forest as a hunter and a host but no one every gloats about those.

Carphil wrote:

Gol wrote:

Carphil wrote:Forest is aways nice all they do is hide and only show up when someone else invade

Seriously hosting in the forest is the worst thing you can do, after killing you with hornets ring backstab in a 3 vs 1 fight they use shrug or point down like if you were a giants armor mask of the mother farmer

3v1 in the forest ?

There can be only 2 invaders.
And farmers aren't only using that armor so, when a guy is waiting in the forest, I consider he is a farmer and I have no mercy.
Even if he bows, sometimes they bow, you bow in return and they BS you.

Do you know how many darkwraiths are invading in the forest these days? 1 red wraith and 2 forest

Only 2 invaders at the time.
The limit is : The host + 1/2 phantoms + 1/2 Invaders
If there's a hunter and a wraith, there can't be another hunter and if there's 2 phantoms there can only be 1 wraith or 1/2 hunters at the time.

I never seen 2 hunters + 1 wraith + the host.
And don't complain about forest hunters, if they play like that it's because of all the farmers, I used to think they were *** too but then I joined the covenant and I understood.
Join the covenant, you'll see.

When i always host in the forest i never killed by forest invaders :/ and i proper bow and everything and sometimes get bs when bows but i cant care less just WotG and spear poke FTW

And if you find yourself in need of tips and tricks when going through the forest, feel free to click the link in my signature haha.

But I think it just goes back to that there are jerks on every side, no one group is really innocent and I can't honestly blame it on the group. In the forest I see Sunbro farmers who are absolute scum, at the same time on NG+ when facing the Four Kings I'll be loving it up working with those guys. I'll get invaded by some Dark Wraith in the burg while I'm using starting gear and he has a Chaos Rapier+Hornets Ring, then there are times where in the forest Dark Wraith's save my ***. There are the good, the bad, and the ugly sides of every covenant.

Yeah, I was not targeting any covenant specifically in this thread, just some persons who use these covenants to get easy souls.

Gol wrote:

Carphil wrote:

Gol wrote:

Carphil wrote:Forest is aways nice all they do is hide and only show up when someone else invade

Seriously hosting in the forest is the worst thing you can do, after killing you with hornets ring backstab in a 3 vs 1 fight they use shrug or point down like if you were a giants armor mask of the mother farmer

3v1 in the forest ?

There can be only 2 invaders.
And farmers aren't only using that armor so, when a guy is waiting in the forest, I consider he is a farmer and I have no mercy.
Even if he bows, sometimes they bow, you bow in return and they BS you.

Do you know how many darkwraiths are invading in the forest these days? 1 red wraith and 2 forest

Only 2 invaders at the time.
The limit is : The host + 1/2 phantoms + 1/2 Invaders
If there's a hunter and a wraith, there can't be another hunter and if there's 2 phantoms there can only be 1 wraith or 1/2 hunters at the time.

I never seen 2 hunters + 1 wraith + the host.
And don't complain about forest hunters, if they play like that it's because of all the farmers, I used to think they were *** too but then I joined the covenant and I understood.
Join the covenant, you'll see.

It is completely possible 3 invaders in the forest. trust me I host there a lot of times to try out diferent builds.

And yes I already joined the forest cov and there are a lot of farmers with phantoms, but the forest guys usually black crystal out or wait until someone else invades.

I can tell if they will bow and give a fair fight by their equipments

Hosting there I've seen everything. People naked with a big hammer aways bow and never backstab, people with full ornstein set, eagle shield and a lightning katana never bows and aways go for backstabs or keep spamming magic. and of course there are people sl 200 lightning claymore, giants armor and masks

I have nothing agaisnt the forest, but I'm just saying there is no honor at all pvping there. Kiln and painted world these days are almost bad as the forest, the only good people I fight are by dragon sign, because it must be 1 vs 1, or by red soapstone

I know, I just mean that people might not get that and start a big flame war, then this topic will get locked and shut down. It is always dangerous when it comes to making sure you don't offend people, politics eh?

So trying to stay back on topic with the idea of who the worst is, I'd have to say Farmers of any kind in my book. Since I am SL120 and to me they effect me the worst, while the low level BB glitchers would be the worst when it comes to new players. I don't think there is an absolute worst group in Dark Souls, it all depends on the area. I invade in the Forest a lot so I can kick hackers off ledges and kill them(Incredibly easy given their skill level), but to people who invade in areas where that just isn't possible they are completely unkillable. It's just more case by case scenarios I feel.

Carphil wrote:

Gol wrote:

Carphil wrote:

Gol wrote:

Carphil wrote:Forest is aways nice all they do is hide and only show up when someone else invade

Seriously hosting in the forest is the worst thing you can do, after killing you with hornets ring backstab in a 3 vs 1 fight they use shrug or point down like if you were a giants armor mask of the mother farmer

3v1 in the forest ?

There can be only 2 invaders.
And farmers aren't only using that armor so, when a guy is waiting in the forest, I consider he is a farmer and I have no mercy.
Even if he bows, sometimes they bow, you bow in return and they BS you.

Do you know how many darkwraiths are invading in the forest these days? 1 red wraith and 2 forest

Only 2 invaders at the time.
The limit is : The host + 1/2 phantoms + 1/2 Invaders
If there's a hunter and a wraith, there can't be another hunter and if there's 2 phantoms there can only be 1 wraith or 1/2 hunters at the time.

I never seen 2 hunters + 1 wraith + the host.
And don't complain about forest hunters, if they play like that it's because of all the farmers, I used to think they were *** too but then I joined the covenant and I understood.
Join the covenant, you'll see.

It is completely possible 3 invaders in the forest. trust me I host there a lot of times to try out diferent builds.

And yes I already joined the forest cov and there are a lot of farmers with phantoms, but the forest guys usually black crystal out or wait until someone else invades.

I can tell if they will bow and give a fair fight by their equipments

Hosting there I've seen everything. People naked with a big hammer aways bow and never backstab, people with full ornstein set, eagle shield and a lightning katana never bows and aways go for backstabs or keep spamming magic. and of course there are people sl 200 lightning claymore, giants armor and masks

I have nothing agaisnt the forest, but I'm just saying there is no honor at all pvping there. Kiln and painted world these days are almost bad as the forest, the only good people I fight are by dragon sign, because it must be 1 vs 1, or by red soapstone

So you would hate me.
My forest hunter toon is a stealth build.

20 Vit
20 End
23 Att
45 Dex
50 Faith
25 Int

Occult bandit's knife
Canvas talisman
parry dagger
darkmoon catalyst


Fog ring + Hornet's

I hide in the dark, waiting for the moment I can stab you in the back.
And I can't go straight into the fight with that Vit (even with WoG and HCSM), it's an invasion build anyway, I go for a bS to weaken and then I try to finish as fast as possible.
Soon it will be a blade of the darkmoon cause it was created for it, a real assassin of the darkmoon.
And sometimes yeah, the occasion to attack doesn't show and another hunter comes... it's not my fault.

But I think if I see that the guy is fair-play I'm gonna wait till the fight ends.

^I'm not going to hate you because like you said, its a fair build that rely on pvot backstab and ripostes. Not that Poise circle backstab. And still better because if you see me already in a fight you will sit back and wait, instead of interrupting

Zechk wrote:I never understand debates like this. In my admittedly limited pvp experience I have come across some complete idiots in pretty much all the covenants

He wasn't saying people who are Darkmoons generally behave worse than members of other covenants. Only that because of their invasion mechanics, in the Burg they're worse than the others.

I really don't know what to think on the subject. In my opinion, anyone invading with end-game gear in the Burg is an *******. Darkwraiths invade up, Darkmoons can invade down; does that make DMs worse? Like I said, they're both bad...

My only experience on the subject is this: I skipped the burg in one of my low-level playthroughs, so I figured I'd sit there and wait to get invaded by BB-griefers. And I did. And I whooped their asses for a while! Then I got invaded by a DM 3 times my level (90 vs 30) and that soured my enjoyment, so I left.

After having written all this, I guess I've decided neither is worse. Anyone invading with end-game gear in the burg should get a life. But DMs who think they're "anti-griefers" are sorely kidding themselves. Only way to be sure to fight griefers is to let them come to you. Otherwise you'll invade more noobs than griefers, and potentially a few real anti-griefers like I was trying to do.

I tried out someone's suggestion off youtube, did a soul level 15 playthrough got to NG+, went to Undead Parish, and summoned Solaire and Lautrec, watch the fun unfold.

^same thing but at sl 145 and having constant invasions, some of them level up and even try to invade lol

Well perhaps we need a grassroots movement on places like this site. If players continue to organize around a covenant they like, it will inevitably and organically lead to group mores and codes. I think we are starting to see that with the Forest and Gravelord covenants here. Set the trend here, then proselytize.

Unite! Rise!

Consider that the burg is a pvp spot in ng+. they may well have been looking for a fair fight and murdered you because they were already there and you had sin or they couldn't have invaded. Thats probably what i would have done, smack you once then, if you hit me for any real damage (indicating the bb glitch was likely used), destroy you.

Hmm, that actually does sound pretty reasonable. I don't PvP there at SL120 but I've heard from many that it is definitely a place to go. So yeah actually that is pretty believable. Though him killing a person who for all intents and purposes completely appeared to be a low level player, well that is where it gets a bit dodgy.

Appearances can be deceiving, I have summoned lots of humble looking phantoms to help out wearing basic brown cleric robes or other basic armor to watch in disbelief as they start WOGing an invader, or pull out an electic claymore to flatten the invader--who as a true beginner I may have had a fair fight with-- its disheartening to see ACTUAL non-bb glitch invaders being griefed by the anti-griefers.

I don't think there will ever be a fair parish/burg for beginners with how far we come, but you have to stop and think that griefing is never a one way thing, it goes both ways hosts, invaders, everyone is fighting with the more difficult side of the community.

If you are invading someone as a DMB in the burg/parish they are fair game, I don't really care if their intent was to use the BB to avoid farming or to grief at low levels if you have sin your *** belongs to the DM.

Yukon i believe it is their ears that belong to the DM, not their ***

Serious, that would be the greatest covenant ever haha.

You are stipulating that three stars =/= ear

after all it's greedy to take more than you need or I would have used 4 stars for the 's'