Lordran's Deliverance

It still can't be clensed and opens you to dm invasion.

@Dough, then its not an alliance, neither of you GAIN anything. Thats like me declaring that I'm allies with a penpal in spain.

I ment user covs btw.

And how does the Gravesworn being allies with the lifehunters help? During wartime they will invade your sinners (and since you invade your non DMs will have sin) and during non wartime they help cleanse the areas we cannot. lorewise its a great alliance and warwise it is too.

Pirate, frankly counting sin that was not meant to exist as destroying terms of an alliance is not really reasonable. Intentions are what's important. You were cooping and accidentally got summoned as a Red phantom. You black crysal out, or if by some strange occurrence the host dies and you get indicted, not really your fault..

Also, we are given land we can freely coop in without fear of DM and they have areas we do not protect sinners in, it's a good trade I think. Same principles as you having your allies avoid ariamis.

The gravesworn gl in the pw. The bps have saved my life several times. Should we invade one, we can duel with the sovs and wraiths while the gl watches, letting us fight while they get the humanity and eods.

I have no non dms for the record.
You don't "clense" areas. You fend off invaders and kill bosses. You're indescriminate. (hopefully excluding gankers) Dms actively hunt sinners, who make up the majority of the people you're helping.

I'm not against an alliance because its you, I'm against an alliance because a purely dm cov wouldn't want help. You'll (helper covs) get in the way of them hunting the guilty, and invader covs are almost exclusively sinners, the very people the dms hunt.

Our allies don't avoid the pw. They're welcomed by us in the pw. We're all invaders, the backup in longer 1v2s is exceedingly helpful. If you're not protecting the host at any cost, you sacrifice your integrity as a helper cov. You're intentionally letting the host die, when you implied by dropping your wss that you would protect them. That flies directly in the face of the very concept of the helper cov.

Like i said before, objectives in lordran are complex. Sometime we will fight over who has the right for that objective, and whoever is stronger will get to finish the objective that time.
What do you mean no non dms? Spur and Ahho arent DMs, neither are any of your gravelords.

I. Every character I have is a dm.
Ahho is a dm btw. She does other things to, but she's a dm.

Thats not an alliance dough. DMs as a covenant are only allies with dms. Everyone else is a sinner or an obstacle. So a dm specific cov should act like one, and just kill anyone unfortunate enough to be in a sinners world. No friends, no allies. Only the guilty and their aides, who must die.

What you reference is respect. I have that for your group. We're definitely not allies.

You seek to aid others by defending them from their enemies. DMs seek to aid others by seeking out and killing the offenders. These are not compatible goals. You shouldn't hate each other. You might even like eachother. But when push comes to shove, you're enemies on the field of battle. Thats not a union. Its respect and comradery. Mercenairys have it to, they'll still kill eachother in if thats what they were paid to do, because their reputation is on the line.

You act and speak as though you own this user covenant pirate

Not even close. I am arguing as a DM, and as a logical person using what little dm lore is available.

Forum Pirate wrote:Not even close. I am arguing as a DM, and as a logical person using what little dm lore is available.

Perhaps we should all wait until the lore for the covenant comes out?

Not user cov lore, Actual legitimate dm lore. I love my fan lore, but if its not based on the real thing, its no good. DM lore doesn't lend itself to allies. Sinners, and any phantoms they may have die, however is necessary. You get in the way of that.


@Xack If it wasn't clear by my incessant bickering, I would like to join. I'm just offering my opinion on how it should operate based on the lore.

I'm really hoping that by "fight" you mean duel, hunting in new londo would be rather difficult if I had to bow before I blast them off a ledge with the dragonslayer bow.

Also, I'm a lifehunter first and formost. I'll side with them (and by extension, the gravesworn) in any conflict, just so you're aware before you declare war on anyone

Forum. You seem to forget that these aren’t the in-game DMs, at least it doesn’t look like it to me. They don’t have to follow all the in-game DMs lore. (i think)

In the same way forum, DW doesn't lend itself to allies.. Or the gravelords for that matter, but yet it's okay for them to break what's in game written but not for DM? Double standards I think, It makes no sense for any covenants to have allies except for the coop covenants, and even then those links are very precarious.

Spurgun, that's exactly what I mean. In game lore and fan lore will clash but that's how it is, it's impossible for our little allegiances and such to ever translate into the actual lore of the game..

Despite mistrust on both ends, why wouldn't the dws work with gravelords? Common goal, screw people over. As long as they share that goal its better for both sides to work together, even towards different endgame goals.

The simple reason is that any ally gets in the way of becoming the dark lord. By logic they wouldn't ally because it's one less person they can kill/inflict misery on. More people to kill = more humanity and eyes of death.

Also I never got why any GLs or DWs could ever guard priscilla... I get Dragons and DMs, but the prior two don't make sense..

DWs want to kill peple to gain humanity. And GLs want to infect their worlds to gain EoDs. There is no reason for DWs and GLs to work together according to in game lore. The DWs would just want to kill the GLs for their humanity. And the GLs would not be able to infect as many people.

Dws can kill people faster if they have bps to help them. Killing the gravelord removes them and makes the job harder. And the gl is rewarded if the infected host dies, by dw or otherwise. Dws increase the chance the gl gets what they want.

Supposed to be outcasts. Anyone who can invade from a meta perspective because they can kill hots headed to her.

From the lore perspective, its anyone who doesn't have somewhere else to go. People who were shuned for beliefs or weakness or out of fear, are welcomed. (the inspiration being the deformed creatures inhabiting the world, the harpys, the rats, the fire spitting toxic things)

If the DWs were out casts, they shouldn't be able to use their Red eye orbs though.. and I'm fairly sure GLs can't use eyes of death if they were outcasts (traitors) either..

Not traitors. Most everyone has split loyalties. (Dragons and dms being the more common exceptions) Its saftey and stability are continued because the crossbreed demands it as a condition of us living there, and the council and their guards enforce it when necessary. It works because the members wish to have a place to call home, and won't deny it to others, reguardless of allegiance, because they understand the lonliness and pain.

It is a relatively small group lore wise. Those who break the rules with aggression are exiled, imprisoned, or killed depending on the circumstances.

Kaathe accepts everyone, doesn't mean other dws, or anyone else for that matter, will even give you a second glance.

so what you're telling me, is it doesn't fit with the in game lore? (I'm just busting your balls lol )

It's a nice little idea you guys have developed, even if I don't like some of the other parts of the covenant

Its not the game lore, but it doesn't directly contradict it either. Its built around it. We felt that, as we're comprised of outcasts, we couldn't put many limits on who joined.

Glad you like it, Wyrm and I, (in order of effort put in) worked on it for a while, some things are still in flux.

Yeah, we're vicious killers, and you co-op and duel. Never figured you'd be interested to be honest. It was back in the time of rampant dm hate, and we wanted a user cov that would take us. So wyrm made one.

lol, I always had a soft spot for DM, they're my favourite invasion covenant.. Always getting ripped on but I feel they're misunderstood. Maybe this covenant will help their reputation out even more

Lol, with me shooting people off of bridges in the dark, I don't think it will change much outside the forums. BBing wraiths don't like being jumped by people 47 levels higher than them. (I won't say I don't bb but I don't play human until sl 60 and beyond, or invade before anor londo)

We're still unpopular here, but I decend on hate in a hell of a hurry, so most of the time people don't start bashing any 1 cov (especially dms) because I, and a few others, won't shut up about it until they give or stop.

Yeah, the DMs aren't the bad guys really, the DWs are, but everyone loves to be a cracked orb wraith in their spare time when not with their other covenants... Well not me but most people at least.

I don't bb, and I tried doing that once.. I may make an SL60 DM just to kill guys who BB and have inappropriate gear for their level, just not right to me.

The "anti griefing" works best as a host. On the off chance thats what I'm doing, I'm using full knights and an iaito, at +5. Just to show griefers what skill can do.

I bb, but it cuts build time to just over 2 hoursfor the pw (4 if I need spells) instead on 9 or 13. I've beaten the game a bagillion times, i'm here to pvp. It really opens up my freedom to try new builds or weapons, because it won't be a huge waste of 10+ hours if I don't like it.

I don't like BBing as I enjoy playing through the game, if I can't play through the game and enjoy it I don't think I should be playing Dark Souls to be fair

To me, the PvP is whilst being a large portion, is only supplementary to the main PvE game itself.