... Dark souls review?

JoeBroski09 wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:I'm just arguing because I enjoy it.


That logic would make most of the final fantasy genre not RPG, because there is little to customize. Need for speed underground is an RPG by that logic.

There's a LOT to customize in Final Fantasy. A BIG amount. I actually screwed up my characters in that game BECAUSE I customized incorrectly.

And, like i said, even if there is customization, it BARELY changes how you play the game, if any. that was my main point. Even though you can customize the crap out of your car in NFS, it doesn't change how you drift, how you speed up, how you win. You win by how you play it yourself, and you'll play it how you play it with any car you have.

There is some customization in FF. But is a far way away from having a lot of customization, it lacks a lot of customization compared to most RPG's even

JoeBroski09 wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:And modern Pop (here anyways) is simply electronica. Being classified as something doesn't make the classification true.

The definition of a word is created by the society. If they change the definition, roll with it. It's changed. Modern Pop is Modern Pop. It can also be described as Electronica. The society has defined it that way, and because of that, the language is changed. The language ebbs and flows with the culture, and when the culture changes, so does the language. Role Playing Game HAS to be defined by the culture and the society influences that, NOT you. Your specific viewpoint is one of many, and when it comes to talking about language, talking about how society is wrong is simply saying that right is wrong, because, by what I've just explained here, society is right.

Society defines a lot of things. That doesn't make the definition accurate. This is the same society that values fairness to the mentally or physically sub average so much that it intentionally holds back everyone else to its own detriment.

I also refuse to allow society to define things for me, or accept definitions I find incorrectly applied. No one is better than you or can define something for you unless you let them.

And which car you use and where and how and how its tuned have a huge effect on how you do everything. It is hugely important to have everything set however works best for you if you intend to beat opposition of similar skill levels. There are even stats to represent most of it. A car is also perfectly capable of being a character.

Forum Pirate wrote:I also refuse to allow society to define things for me, or accept definitions I find incorrectly applied. No one is better than you or can define something for you unless you let them.

Agreed.

Forum Pirate wrote:

JoeBroski09 wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:And modern Pop (here anyways) is simply electronica. Being classified as something doesn't make the classification true.

The definition of a word is created by the society. If they change the definition, roll with it. It's changed. Modern Pop is Modern Pop. It can also be described as Electronica. The society has defined it that way, and because of that, the language is changed. The language ebbs and flows with the culture, and when the culture changes, so does the language. Role Playing Game HAS to be defined by the culture and the society influences that, NOT you. Your specific viewpoint is one of many, and when it comes to talking about language, talking about how society is wrong is simply saying that right is wrong, because, by what I've just explained here, society is right.

Society defines a lot of things. That doesn't make the definition accurate. This is the same society that values fairness to the mentally or physically sub average so much that it intentionally holds back everyone else.

And which car you use and where and how and how its tuned have a huge effect on how you do everything.

When it comes to the words and phrases you are calling "wrong," their definitions are how society defines them. And the definitions of the words will change along with the culture overtime. It's just how things work. I bet there's a new definition in the dictionary of the word g@y. Society rules all when it comes to language, and definitely in the examples you gave.

Oh, and don't throw around Right and Wrong and Good and Bad so loosely, because they are far from black and white. You preach about viewpoints and how important and unique each one is, and those 4 main words I incorrectly capitalized are ALL about viewpoint. They are not how you are using them.

And idk about you, but all I did in NFS was go as fast as i could and drift if I could and just not crash. I did that no matter what car I had. I won after a few tries. it's mostly the map and knowing how to drift and how far to drift. not really the car, much.

Anyway, I'm going to have to leave now, but to finish up

Dark Souls is an RPG because the game itself is about playing your character. That's the main aspect of the game. You cannot deny that creating your character, playing your character, customizing your character, using your character, is what the game is about. When the game is about that, it's an RPG. When changing your character or team or car makes little difference in how you play, that's when it's not an RPG. That's how I define it, and I believe how many others define it

.. in their hearts haha!

LordRevan wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:I also refuse to allow society to define things for me, or accept definitions I find incorrectly applied. No one is better than you or can define something for you unless you let them.

Agreed.

Even if you refuse to define it for you, it WILL change. Refusing to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less true. A crazy man can believe that he is immortal, but that doesn't mean that he will die someday.

Oh, and I refuse to have the definition of marriage change from being a "man and a woman" to being "two people." I will vote against that change of definition until it is actually changed.

Anyway, peace out *fist pump*

Seriously, Forum. Look into sociology. It's very interesting, and it would really help you learn what you preach. 'Cause after this debate, I don't think I'll believe you again when you talk about accepting others' viewpoints.

JoeBroski09 wrote:

LordRevan wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:I also refuse to allow society to define things for me, or accept definitions I find incorrectly applied. No one is better than you or can define something for you unless you let them.

Agreed.

Even if you refuse to define it for you, it WILL change. Refusing to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less true. A crazy man can believe that he is immortal, but that doesn't mean that he will die someday.

Oh, and I refuse to have the definition of marriage change from being a "man and a woman" to being "two people." I will vote against that change of definition until it is actually changed.

Unless he is immortal

And try keep on topic. Best not to start a discussion about that.

You haven't played enough racers. Creating, customizing, manipulating and capitalising on strengths and weakness are vital parts of the game. Exactly the same as DKS.

I don't think I've ever said right or wrong in reference to this argument, and only used good to get a point across. No one and nothing will define anything for me unless I allow it. Common and correct are different things. Society also defines black to be inappropriate, and defines African American as the correct term. Well I'm not from africa, so I'm not African American, just American. A black American.

Better example?

JoeBroski09 wrote:Anyway, peace out *fist pump*

Seriously, Forum. Look into sociology. It's very interesting, and it would really help you learn what you preach. 'Cause after this debate, I don't think I'll believe you again when you talk about accepting others' viewpoints.

Also seriously? I'm just arguing for the hell of it, I'm not condemning your view, arguing is fun, and you're reasonably good at it. I couldn't help myself.

Oh and no. I don't like people, studying them as a group is something I'll pass on. They don't make the effort to understand me, I don't make the effort to understand them.

I accept them (ie wouldn't change themm unless they chose to change because they wanted to), thats as far as I go.

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:

Reaperfan wrote:wall of text

Are there - have there ever been - any pure RPGs? It seems like RPG is just one tiny descriptor of a game that has a litany of other aspects to it. In that vein, one could argue that something like Skyrim is about as close a thing as we have to a pure RPG. Combat isn't so much emphasized as is the leveling of your character (as the world around your character remains stagnant) and where you choose to take your character.

Your point here makes me realize how pointless this whole discussion is. When I was a regular on the Bethesda forum it was full of threads with people complaining Skyrim wasn't Rpg enough and many over there used Dark Souls as a better example of an Rpg. So I conclude everyone has their own idea of what an Rpg is and there is no definitive definition, therefore the term is pretty useless.

I still feel DkS is the best digital representation of a table top Rpg, the games that started all this, and FROM are the Dungeon Masters setting up the framework within which I create my character and have my adventure. However the discussion is still pointless because Rpg doesn't have an accepted definition.

Funny how people rep you down because they think it's your review

ChizFreak wrote:Funny how people rep you down because they think it's your review

Not necessarily.
Could be because of his notes he put after it. I would of repped him down when I first read them, but instead I generally just try to use my 2 a day to rep people up.

LordRevan wrote:

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:

Reaperfan wrote:Long story short, maybe we should just respect each others' opinions and agree to disagree?

This is always the best, and wisest course of action.

Oh and this is probably best ^^

No its not the best, its the most boring and ignorant course of action. As long as no one is being a **** the debate should continue. If people didn't debate and discuss we would all be stuck in our own ignorant narrow little worlds with no influence from outside ideas and perspective. Debate drives our evolution as a society, agreeing to disagree is stagnation.

Federally wrote:

LordRevan wrote:

WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:

Reaperfan wrote:Long story short, maybe we should just respect each others' opinions and agree to disagree?

This is always the best, and wisest course of action.

Oh and this is probably best ^^

No its not the best, its the most boring and ignorant course of action. As long as no one is being a **** the debate should continue. If people didn't debate and discuss we would all be stuck in our own ignorant narrow little worlds with no influence from outside ideas and perspective. Debate drives our evolution as a society, agreeing to disagree is stagnation.

This was because the debate had gone on for the last ~10 pages and had come to a relative standstill where all parties had expressed their opinions, tried their best to explain their viewpoints to others.

It is not ignorant after a lengthy debate to realise that you have a differing opinion to someone else and to accept that, that is their opinion.

I'm just lost how you can not accept society's definition of things.. You're all playing language games and it's bloody ridiculous

Next forum is gonna turn round and tell me spirits of vengeance are red, and sunbros are blue.

Serious_Much wrote:I'm just lost how you can not accept society's definition of things.. You're all playing language games and it's bloody ridiculous

Next forum is gonna turn round and tell me spirits of vengeance are red, and sunbros are blue.

And somehow, he'll find SOME kind of solid proof that cannot be disputed, and yet there are a thousand ways that goes against his viewpoint, we just cannot disprove his one point. Somehow.

Serious_Much wrote:I'm just lost how you can not accept society's definition of things.. You're all playing language games and it's bloody ridiculous

Next forum is gonna turn round and tell me spirits of vengeance are red, and sunbros are blue.

Language games like this are called 'arguing semantics' or at least that's what society tells me, MAN!

You can deny societies definitions all you want and that's fine, however it will create problems when you're trying to communicate with others and your words mean different things then their words.

I will also add I like Forum's argument, I still think Dark Souls is the best pure Rpg to come out in a long time. I think so many people have just forgotten what an Rpg is so they fail to recognize it.

there is no solid proof. ever. At least according to him. Disputing what society accepts is stupid though as if you start disputing meanings of words its gonna turn to laws too and you're gonna get arrested for doing your interpretation of the law

Though then again, if you go against general consensus, you are the one who is wrong. Truth is not something that is an exact value, it is merely the truth that is accepted at the time. If you don't adhere to that truth and disagree, even if your point is more logical, you're still wrong simply because the majority disagree with you. That's the way society works.

Yes Serious but we need people who reject societies definitions and make their own, to a certain extent at least, otherwise we wind up with a boring stagnant society. I happened to enjoy his post where he refuted the label of African American and chose his own label, or none at all. Difference is in that point he wasn't arguing what a word means, he was simply refusing to de defined by what those words mean or represent.

Majority opinion does not define truth. It may shape the laws and social conventions, but truth is either concrete as it is in physics, or determined by the individual. There isn't anything wrong with holding a majority opinion, but I believe I owe it to myself to decide for myself what any given word, phrase or action means. In many, possibly even most, cases I hold a majority opinion, in others I do not.

As an example, racial slurs directed at me don't offend me in the least. I only bother to report it here because it promotes a peaceful community. Society would say I should be offended, but I deam it unwarranted or unworthy of a response depending on context.

The same here. I disagree with the commonly held definition of RPG so I neither use it in that manner, nor acknowledge or judge games I don't see as RPGs by RPG standards.

But the word is Role Playing Game, a joining of these words. I understand if your definition of say, a witch is different from others. But it's like saying you think a Submarine is a plane. The word is Sub-Marine.

I'm making the reference as a genre. The genre defies the meaning of the word. Its rather common. Like a black light, or a jumbo shrimp, the name is incorrectly applied.

So I can call Harvest Moon an FPS because I feel like it?

jumbo shrimp IS correctly applied... the adjective of jumbo can be applied to the noun form of shrimp. Same with black light. A black adjective can be applied to the noun of light as in, the bulb. The bulb looks black before you plug it in and turn it on.

Black light is impossible, its purple hence blacklight as an example, similarly Jumbo means big and shrimp mean small. Its a big small, which makes no sense without a comparison. They're called oxymorons. Names that imply impossibilities.

YES i know shrimp, is also a noun.