The flooding of New Londo

Something about this always bugged me. It is stated that New Londo was a rich and vibrant city, but was flooded and it's citizens killed in the process of stopping the four kings. However, who ordered the flooding? Gwyn had already left to link the fire, and had already shown he was indifferent to evil through ignoring Seath's experiments and conduct. The city is not entirely flooded even, if they were truly trying to kill every last darkwraith, and what was stopping an evacuation of the city before flooding it, to save the citizens? And when did the Abyss come into existence? Was it always there, a geographical anomaly, or did the four kings create it themselves? And why send a mere 3 sorcerers from Carim to contain a unprecendented evil?

If someone could clear things up for me, I'd appreciate it.

I understood that they took it upon themselves... although that may just have been my interpretation. I thought they were healers loyal to the city and did what they felt had to be.

https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t7013-logan-seath-and-new-londo-discoveries

Not sure if you saw this thread or not Wade but it brings up a few ideas that might help you form some in regards to your question.

No matter the case the Sealers are responsible, it is possible the Dark Wraith became a serious issue suddenly and they acted on impulse. Note Ingward felt remorseful for his actions taken, as if he doubted himself. He didn't seem to doubt the choice of a power above him, but his own will. There are three known exits to the city, more possibly via water. Meaning evacuation wouldn't exactly be simple via land. So, maybe people did escape via boat. But, if your worry is to quarantine something you do not wish for anything to get out. You need to act swiftly and strike while you can. There was probably no chance to truly form any sort of evacuation as the action was done on an impulse killing so many.

I think the Abyss was a creation of Kaathe or the Four Kings as protection. If the Abyss didn't exist then the flooding wouldn't be necessary because the Kings could be confronted, but due to them bring inaccessible due to the Abyss they instead had to be trapped in it. This is further supported by the Covenant of Artorias ring. We know Artorias allied with the Four Kings and his rung implies he made a covenant with them that allowed him to traverse the Abyss. If the Abyss had been created as a prison aligning with the Kings would not allow you entrance.

Also no one sent the Sealers. They knew of the "corruption" in New Londo and decided to act themselves. An evacuation was not possible for several potential reasons; one being risk of warning the kings by emptying their city of people, another being a lack of time maybe the kings were set to act in some way, and last it may have been reasonable to suspect a lot of the populace of being aligned and no way to sort them out. So kill em all for the "Greater Good".

In regards to the Abyss, I believe that the power to walk there is an aspect of the soul, as once you absorb the soul of the Four Kings you can walm there without the ring.

I believe the Abyss had allways been there, the primordial serpents reside there, you can get to firelink shrine from the abyss which means it obvs linked to the kiln, there is more the Darkwraith story then they let on

Actually, the shrine just seems like the location of a sealed portal. The Kiln has it's own physical location.

billy_bayonet wrote:I believe the Abyss had allways been there, the primordial serpents reside there, you can get to firelink shrine from the abyss which means it obvs linked to the kiln, there is more the Darkwraith story then they let on

That makes sense. Then i'll refine my ideas and say Artorias' Covenant was with Kaathe, since the Abyss is his. Then the Four Kings entered a similar agreement with him.

The abyss is probably the only constant since the primordial age hence why the serpents reside there. There is allot of them.

That is a sound theory. It's probably like the underworld.

All legends from all lands always start with nothingness, void, etc. Primordial = existing from the beginning of time. Combine these thoughts and the primordial serpents were the first things out of nothingness (Abyss) and this is my way of saying that I agree with the last few comments. It also implies that the serpents have a much bigger role in shaping the world than they let on. Both pretend to be pawns of a greater scheme but I have my doubts. Also, there's a good number of creatures/things you can't kill (Giant Crow, Alvina, Everlasting Dragon). Frampt and the Everlasting Dragon aren't bothered by being hit but Frampt is unique in that he's the only thing that brushes it off as inconsequential (when you wake him up).

Can't kill Kaathe either.

Yeah. I didn't make a complete list of things you can't kill. I was using Frampt as the point because he not only takes the attack he laughs it off. You're the chosen undead, meant to kill Gwyn: Lord of Cinder. We can damage and destroy an iron statue come to life, can best a knight of Gwyn at the same time as a powerful contemporary, laugh at a flipping she wolf with sword in hand (uh....mouth), ogle a half naked spider lady and still come out victorious, and many many other fantastic deeds and that jerk only will take off after insulted. Alvina's dissapearance and the Crow flying off suggest that they have some fear in you. The Everlasting Dragon can lose it's tail meaning it can be hurt. The serpents? Don't make them laugh.

That's a good point about Fraampt. However you just rocked my world, Sif is a girl?!

Almost certainly. The only common use of that name is from Norse legends and is Thor's wife and goddess associated with earth, fertility etc. The name is derived from a longer word meaning "affinity" or "connection" so kinda like "loyalty." Mildred indicated she did a gender check as well during our discussion on this topic and confirmed there's noting to indicate a male canine.

EDIT: I also checked every possible item that has connection to Artorias and Sif in game and there is no gender specified precisely. So like most things, evidence suggests Sif is female but if Bambi can be a male in the movie and female strippers most other places, Sif could be male.

And Sif doesn't look male when you stand under her/him!

Okay serious now. Sif as a female changes the dynamics of that boss fight entirely. I love dogs so it was already sad killing a loyal companion like that but Sif being a girl ramps up the emotion. I now wish I could be her friend like Priscilla! I don't want to have to kill her anymore

Now remember her limping at the end and go sit and think about what you've done! Bad Chosen Undead! Naughty!

If it makes you feel better the prevailing thought regarding her and the forest covenant (or my belief anyway) is that they're waiting for someone strong enough to take up the cause.

It'd be awesome if you could become the protector of the grave of artorias alla demons souls player bosses. Once sif has been killed a million times she/he are gone for good and now you must pvp to get the ring...

Instead of Old Monk we become Old Wolf? You could get a cool wolf mask for the effort like the old head wrappings.

Federally wrote:. This is further supported by the Covenant of Artorias ring. We know Artorias allied with the Four Kings and his rung implies he made a covenant with them that allowed him to traverse the Abyss. If the Abyss had been created as a prison aligning with the Kings would not allow you entrance.
\.

I disagree. The abyss may hide more than just the four kings. I would suspect Kaathe and Frampt being the beasts of the abyss. And in that way we still dont know what agenda Artorias has as what Kaathe and Frampt want is never truely specified. Sure they say certain things but the snake is a symbol of deception (despite its other alignments and such) and I dont entirely trust them.

This may have already been said.

One question would be why the sefpents care about humans at all? Is it a simple matter of boredom? Compared to the lifespans of the serpents, humans are mere ants.

Most likely their desire would be to shape the whole world as they see fit (and yeah boredom might play a big role). Humans as a rule could be insignificant for the most part but can bring about drastic change with the right motivation.

Also there are allot of the little f***ers worming about down there. I wouldn't be surprised if gambling betting and general competition might be a motivating factor.

skarekrow13 wrote:Most likely their desire would be to shape the whole world as they see fit (and yeah boredom might play a big role). Humans as a rule could be insignificant for the most part but can bring about drastic change with the right motivation.

Yeah, they can do great things, but unless it affects them personally I doubt they would care.

Sounds a lot like Gamers......