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    just some info of karmic justice

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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:16 am

    ok so i was glancing over the wiki and the forum and i noticed that karmic justice has no dedicated post by someone who has a build that uses it. well i have thankfully big grin basically this is more of a trolling force than a hardcore weapon.i am in no means saying that it is completely useless, i am just saying that it is hard to get to go off before your dead. i have learned a few things about it in the time i have used it:
    1. it has slightly higher damage than WOG
    2. it has a more powerful knock-back effect then force or WOG
    3. 5 hits give or take set it off
    4. it works if your shield dose not protect 100%
    in my build i have found that it can legitimately save you maybe 1/4 times you get stun-locked. it lasts for 1 min and can be incredibly useful for a tank. in conclusion it makes a good back up is you have the att. for it, if not it is not the cosmic force that the description makes it sound like but there's nothing funnier then when someone beats you, is about to mock you.....then you explode lol!
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    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:25 am

    could it be paired with rtsr or would the ring have to be active when you CAST the spell instead of when it activates?
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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:40 am

    to be honest i have no idea id say cast tho cus then the damage should be set..., but if you plan on PVPing with this as a main strategy 1. balls to you 2. ring slots will need to be tiny beings and fap.
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    Post by RandelOolacile Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:48 am

    Nice info! I always thought it was based on a single super damaging hit. I could never get it to go off. Thanks again!
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    Post by LordRevan Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:05 am

    I'm gonna go give it a shot now. See if it does any good. Any trolling force is a good one silly
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    Post by Reaperfan Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:13 am

    Hmm, I hadn't thought of it proccing through non-100% reduction shields. Would it be a good idea at all to use something like the Gargoyle or Effigy shields that don't reduce 100% physical damage when using this miracle to maybe get it to proc offensively and not just as a "oh crud I'm getting stunlocked BOOM whew that saved my butt" kind of spell?
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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:13 am

    no thanks needed, just providing the limiting knowledge i have. and yes trolling force is allways the best force, i have always wondered if it would be effective with iron body hahaha
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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:17 am

    Reaperfan wrote:Hmm, I hadn't thought of it proccing through non-100% reduction shields. Would it be a good idea at all to use something like the Gargoyle or Effigy shields that don't reduce 100% physical damage when using this miracle to maybe get it to proc offensively and not just as a "oh crud I'm getting stunlocked BOOM whew that saved my butt" kind of spell?
    its hard to get it to go off to be honest, with a shield i have a feeling it requires more hits to go off. as for the sun-locking, if they get you there your dead you just may be able to kill them along with you hahaha it has saved me a few times, but i had that little heath left it only took an arrow
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    Post by Rynn Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:40 am

    Is the wiki not up to date on that spell?
    Let me contribute what I know too then.
    1: Karmatic Justice is Regular, not magical, in it's damage type.
    2: Spells can activate Karmatic Justice
    3: Karmatic Justice has a poise meter, it is never lower then 150, but it is (roughly) 3.5 times higher then your poise... capping at about 215... usually resulting in taking 3-5 hits to go off. (215 = 4 blows from ultra greats, 150 = 3).
    4:Karmatic Justice also seems to have a rough 10-15 hit cap, no matter how much poise is lost.
    5: Karmatic Justice can be Synergized via those white rings of concentrated randomness. It does about 25% more damage.
    6: If RTSR activates, it is applied to KJ.
    6a: I presume the same is true of PW... would PW's ticks possibly tip this spell off?
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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 am

    the wiki is quite vague on it
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    Post by White Mamba Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 am

    Is damage based off how much you take or how high your faith is?
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    Post by raecor14 Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:45 am

    scales to magic adj id say
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    Post by Rynn Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:46 am

    White Mamba wrote:Is damage based off how much you take or how high your faith is?
    Definitely faith.
    Or more specifically mag adj.
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    Post by DamageCK Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:51 am

    Imagine if someone tried to Fire Surge you while it was in effect...

    Instant detonation.
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    Post by BoilerFan8472 Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:40 am

    like a ticking time bomb
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    Post by Rynn Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:53 am

    It might sound like 1 minute isn't a long time, but the buff is very likely to go off before then, as people are impatient.
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    Post by LordRevan Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:02 am

    I was using it earlier. Definitely effected by poise somewaht as Rynn said. I fought a shotel user who hit me a lot around 5 or 6 times, and hit my shield(95% resist) a couple too. It never went off.

    However later when I fought a BKGA user who hit me once, then I partial parried he's next. The next time he hit me it went off sending him flying silly

    So weapon definitely matters. Also yeah, 1 minute is plenty of time.
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    Post by billy_bayonet Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:19 am

    i thougth id like to add, me and rant did a bit of testing with this, i did aload of testing bymyself, 5 hits with one handed small weapon, Straight sword mace that sorta thing, and i found that 6-7 hits on a shield will set it off, also if you block an attack that normally would knock you to the ground but still take damage it will go off, with ultra greatswords, 3-4 swings will set it off, this is what i found out anyway, its a little broken though as its not guranteed to go off sometimes it will never go off, some times it will go off in one hit, its too unreliable to use effectivly more of a hmm lets se if this will show you, also if you use PW and RTST and it goes off wearing the dragon ring and dusk crown you can kill whoever has killed you lol, hence the term karmic justice
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    Post by DamageCK Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:20 am

    A hand axe/falchion/pgs should trigger it pretty quick. Someone bring this to the next FC event so we can test it/laugh.
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    Post by Yarxov Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:49 pm

    Would it detonate faster with no poise? 0 x 3.5 = 0 so it should go off in one hit unless theres a minimum.
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    Post by DamageCK Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:59 pm

    I think Rynn was saying it has to eat up the equivalent of 150 poise. Maybe. Hell, I don't know.

    Or no, minimum of 150, which would be no poise. And then it goes up from there depending on your poise loadout.

    Damn it. Rynn, 'splain it again please... Haha.
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    Post by LordRevan Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:05 pm

    I took Rynn's explanation to mean "the meter" == your poise * 3.5. However if poise * 3.5 is less than 150, the meter is 150. If your poise * 3.5 is greater than 215, the meter is 215.

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    Post by Yarxov Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:22 pm

    So a minumum of 150, maximum of 215, leaves the maximum poise you can have without adding more hits to fill up is 43 (rounded up) enough to not be staggered by a 1H greatsword or normal sword afaik (Greatsword 1H might be 53, but I think thats 2H)
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    Post by VinheimProfessor Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:31 pm

    Going by the lore talking about Velka, I thought this would be a dedicated Sorceror or Cleric's type Miracle for someone wearing light armor or clothing. Has anyone tried it with low poise to see if it triggers more?
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    Post by Rynn Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:48 pm

    Yarxov wrote:So a minumum of 150, maximum of 215, leaves the maximum poise you can have without adding more hits to fill up is 43 (rounded up) enough to not be staggered by a 1H greatsword or normal sword afaik (Greatsword 1H might be 53, but I think thats 2H)
    That's what I was saying. Please recall I don't have access to the source code, and might be entirely wrong, this is what I believe I witnessed while using the miracle on my Velka cosplay, which I did experiments like that with. I pull up 150 and 215 as numbers because based on the poise loss each weapon gives per hit; 150 seems right on the nose for my minimum damagel, and 215 seemed close to the max. (Closest number I can test is 209, which isn't enough, then 216).

    So take it with a grain of salt, I'm not infallible.

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