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    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

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    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside? Empty Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Back Lot Basher Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 pm

    Most people in PvP are pretty mobile. It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out. Doesn't this end up being a huge handicap if you like to use buffs? Or do people who buff just go for the throat right away and hope they get the jump?
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    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:58 pm

    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?
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    Post by Back Lot Basher Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:00 pm

    Carphil wrote:
    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?

    I just mean that if you can evade someone who has buffed their weapon, and it runs out, they won't have as much attack power. Darkmoon blade only gets one use, so if the enemy doesn't take you out fast, their opportunity is gone.
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    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:05 pm

    Yes but you can still kill without buffs. Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not. So when you buff, you have a 60/40 chance to win. When the buff wears off, you have 50/50 to win.
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    Post by RANT Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:27 pm

    and you still have the spells from either faith or int like wog or hcss. i have slb and wog attuned on my str/fai toon but i never use them.
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    Post by Scudman_Slayer Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:21 pm

    don't forget the fact that lag gets mixed in it and you end up getting hit out of the nowhere when the guy wasn't even close to you
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    Post by Toastfacekillah Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 pm

    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.
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    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:34 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    Because of the humanity, chaos is an exception. The rest, all elementals, will do less damage. I mean, there is a thread about this, or just ask the guru.
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    Post by Shakie666 Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 pm

    Err... i don't know about you, but my elemental weapons (including chaos) all do more damage than any of my weapons that rely on stat scaling. My highest level toon is sl202, and the most powerful stat scaling weapon i have on that is a Divine greataxe +10 which does 752 damage one handed with 50 str, 40 dex + 50 faith. A lightning greataxe +5 does 777 damage. Plus most enemies have far higher resistance to magic damage than lightning... can you see where i'm going with this?

    Also, Carphil, could you point me to that thread you mentioned? I would like to read it.


    Last edited by Shakie666 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by ChizFreak Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 pm

    Most people carry a backup elemental weapon to use when their buffs fades off.
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    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:27 pm

    This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.
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    Post by retention_sb Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:29 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:32 pm

    Car can you give me the thread where it says this in detail?

    Though I agree, never understood the rage about fire/lightning weapons, I always have either divine/occult if im faith or Chaos for any other build as backup..

    I find elemental underwhelming in my view though
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    Post by Toastfacekillah Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:34 pm

    retention_sb wrote:pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.
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    Post by Carphil Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:35 pm

    I cant find the link, it was a Blaine thread! Maybe is in the old forums, but I do remember something about this. Gonna search all Blaine's threads
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    Post by strangejoy Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:36 pm

    I think the real disadvantage is that it takes a long time to apply a buff (the buff animation is really long). Some people will allow you to buff, and some won't.
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    Post by retention_sb Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 pm

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.[/quote]

    i was never implying that pine resins would not be avoided, i was just simply stating that pine resins can be largely stacked and puts you on middle ground with the people that chose other upgrade paths.
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    Post by ChizFreak Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:14 pm

    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.
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    Post by Serious_Much Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:22 pm

    chiz did he not say that divine, occult and chaos would all outdamage normal +15 without buff because of their scaling?
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    Post by RANT Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:29 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.

    great club is pretty awesome, specially when buffed. what did you tested on? 40 str?
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    Post by reim0027 Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 pm

    Elemental weapons aren't as strong as +15 (for the most part). That is because of split damage reduction. You have 2 different defenses that lower the actual AR for elemental weapons. You can't go by the AR shown on the menu, because it doesn't take into account your opponent's defenses.

    Try an experiment. Go to the Forest and attack the mage. Look at the damage output with a lightning weapon, and compare it to the exact same weapon, but at +15 (if you have both of them). The +15 will win (in most cases).

    So, now you have a +15 weapon that is stronger and can be buffed (making it even better). The main advantage of an elemental is the lack of scaling means you can devote stats elsewhere (namely vitality).

    EDIT: about people letting you buff, I find most will let you buff - if you buff before you bow. Once you bow, many people consider the fight to have started and will attack you if you buff.
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    Post by Blazefury Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm

    Fought a couple fellas using the Sunlight Blade buff, half of them didnt evade me. They RAN away. "Unfortunately", I had to switch to the BKGA.

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