The Darkwraiths...

Sooo...I killed the Four Kings and The Nightstalker is not there?

I did not talk to Frampt after i got the Lord...thingy...BAH
I did not join The Darkwraiths on my first playtrough (On NG+) so does that have anything to do whit it?

Did you already place it by yourself in Firelink?

Yes...DID I HAVE TO KILL THEM BEFORE I PUT THE LORD THING NEXT TO GWYNS AREA?

You have to still have the lordvessel in your inventory when you kill the four kings to make Kaathe appear

Yeah - you can access the 4 Kings boss fight whenever you want from he beginning of the game - you'll just have to kill the Sealer for the key (if you have/have placed the Lordvessel, he just gives it to you).

BartholomewWenceslas wrote:You have to still have the lordvessel in your inventory when you kill the four kings to make Kaathe appear

That is not true, he will appear so long as you haven't placed it. You can fight the 4 Kings as your first boss in the game, and he will still appear (though, all he will really say is that you have to get the Lordvessel, at least until you actually bring it to him).

JohnnyHarpoon wrote: You can fight the 4 Kings as your first boss in the game, and he will still appear.

Well, you can't fight them as the first boss though

So i could kill those *** from the beginning? WELL ***. NG++ HERE I COME. (Btw, i could kill the guy in Red robe and get the seal?)

I consider the Asylum Demon more the tutorial boss, but if you wanna get technical, then the 4 Kings can be the second boss you fight (first upon arriving in Lordran).

Serious_Much wrote:

JohnnyHarpoon wrote: You can fight the 4 Kings as your first boss in the game, and he will still appear.

Well, you can't fight them as the first boss though

You could fight him as the first boss of NG+ (unless of course you count the asylum demon)

Johnny, what Serious meant is that you need the covenant of artorias to even fight the four kings, which means either BB glitching or killing sif first

Jester's Tears wrote:So i could kill those *** from the beginning? WELL ***. NG++ HERE I COME. (Btw, i could kill the guy in Red robe and get the seal?)

The Key to the Seal, yes. If you have the Lordvessel, he just gives it to you, but you can fight the Four Kings as soon as you arrive in Lordran, so long as you're willing to kill the red dude (which is sad, cause he's old) and take the Key to drain lower New Londo.

BartholomewWenceslas wrote:

Serious_Much wrote:

JohnnyHarpoon wrote: You can fight the 4 Kings as your first boss in the game, and he will still appear.

Well, you can't fight them as the first boss though

You could fight him as the first boss of NG+ (unless of course you count the asylum demon)

Johnny, what Serious meant is that you need the covenant of artorias to even fight the four kings, which means either BB glitching or killing sif first

Ah good point, always forget about Covenant Ring.

So Sif -> Four Kings!

I forget about it even when I coop new londo.. I must have died after diving into the abyss without the ring on surplus of 20 times

I just recently learned that you can have both frampt's and kaathe's services available at the same time, as long as you have not placed the lordvessel. I have always assumed that talking to one of them made the other one leave.

Yup, it all depends on what you do before getting the Lordvessel or when you have it, and how you place it.

- Kill 4 Kings before getting the Lordvessel and you can join the Darkwraiths. If you then place the Lordvessel by speaking to Frampt, you can keep his services active. Kaathe will get pissed and go away, though. You'll still be part of the Darkwraiths and able to use the Red Eye, but if you leave the covenant you won't be able to re-join in this playthrough. And if you piss off Frampt, you'll have no serpent for the rest of the playthrough.

- If you kill the 4 Kings and have not spoken to Frampt after obtaining the Lordvessel, Kaathe will appear and you can join the Darkwraiths. If you place the Lordvessel through Kaathe, Frampt will go away for the rest of the playthrough, but Kaathe will stay (unless you do something to piss him off!).

- If you get the Lordvessel and speak to Frampt, or place it directly at the altar yourself without speaking to anyone, Kaathe will not appear. If you place it yourself, Frampt will also be upset and leave, so you'll have neither serpent this way.

So it's possible to be a Darkwraith and have either serpent on speaking terms with you, or neither. I don't think it's possible to have both and place the lordvessel, though. So, unless you're willing to halt your progress, you need to pick one serpent.