Weakness cycle of magic.

Trying to get a weakness cycle based on lore and maybe gameplay mechanics on the 3 versions of the magic of DkS: Sorcery, miracles and pyromancies.

We all know dragons are very weak to lightning. Almost all miracles are based on the gods. Divine and occult properties are based on magic damage. WoG, DMB and Emit Force also deal magic damage. But this magic seems pure and raw, so let's take the lightning part for this. Gameplay-wise only WoG seems to win over sorcery for its fast, although close range, attack. I would still like to test a fight with my 45 Dex lightning spears priest vs a mage to see if the lightning spears win. Miracles>sorcery.

Now dragons seem to be resistant to fire, and even though the witches assisted in the war against the dragons, they burned the archtrees and the dragons after lightning peeled of their scales. So that would mean that sorcery wins over pyromancy. In gameplay mechanics sorcery has the advantage of range over the close range pyros. Sorcery>pyros.

Pyromancy is supposed to win over miracles. Lore wise the gods are dependent on fire, and if the fire fades, they die. So they can't live without fire, but that's their weakness. Look at Gwyn, he did everything to keep the fire lit, and he's all hollow because of the fire. Gameplay wise my only suggestion is that the 45 Dex pyros are very fast and Great Combustion is faster than a WoG. So Pyros>miracles.

I would add more info that prove the weakness cycle, but I want you guys to tell me which one is weak against the other, lore-wise and gameplay-wise.

for me sorcery is more weak than miracles they have good range with wrath of the gods you can repel arrows and magics etc

Well if we start with Sorcery.....

it beats out what? Well I see sorcery as the tool of man.... thus IMO Sorcery beats out Pyro (the gods) Pyros beat out Miracles.... while Mircacles beat out sorceries....

This is my basic 3 thing cycle so now all I'd have to do would be to sub in various other influencing factors.

Pyromancy is the focus of power that is abundant in nature. What fuels the flame is innate in the world it is merely being focused by the pyromancer. Man (that is to say human kind) fancies itself as having dominion over nature, mankind uses nature as a tool most readily. Here we can equate Humans with Pyromancy (after all once people got their hands on pyromancy it become innovative, pyromancy the witch would never have conceived came about because of huamns/undead)

Miracles are tiny pieces of the god's power, lent to the faithful. I don't think it's a stretch to equate Miracles to the Gods.

Sorcery is another issue, it'd be convinient to equate it to dragons, but Seath's unsatiated lust for knowledge seems to be unique to him, not a common thing among dragonkind. Instead lets equate Sorcery to Study, becoming learned. (And in study you must have learned that man is mortal and would therefore put the poison as far away from you as possible so I clearly cannot choose the glass in front of me!)

Pyromancy is found to be unsavoury by some in Lordran, it's base and unrefined. But it works. It drawing power from nature (the domain of man) supports it's superiority to miracles. Who toppled the Gods? A cursed human, the chosen undead laid anor londo low after ages of the lords rule. While Miracles are 'borrowed' power from God's Pyromancy is the tool of the Pigmy's decendants (Assuming you can buy that humanity are all shards of the dark soul, humankind itself is the fourth lord having no need to borrow another lords power)

The Lord's with the help of death busted up the dragons, and the age of fire began. Faith is interesting. It is not something that can be understood via science or such. Faith by definition defies logic. Less abstractly Bonfires, the physical manifestations of the age of fire, ruled by the gods are natural draws for humanity. Going back to humanities in game description "If the soul is the source of all life....yaddayadda" God's love souls, Gwyn? Dude found a special soul, gave parts of it away, uses fragments of the darksoul or perhaps genuine human souls to fuel his fire-lit-age of the gods.

How does sorcery hurt? Crystal Soul Spear? Homing Soul Mass? Greater Soul Arrow? Sorcery IMO is an art employed by all things with a soul. Nito's Miasma, the power of his lord soul at work. Gwyn's sunlight Spear, Definately the work of his lord's soul. The sorcery we are familiar with however is that which uses the undead or human soul. Our Lightning Spears are merely borrowed from Gwyn, our Gravelord Swords Dance was a gift from Nito, but Soul Arrow, that's 100% human soul lashing out violently.

And I dare say Gwyn's steadfast use of human souls leads me to believe he finds them useful not threatening.

And if Sorcery is the human soul lashing out against the world, and mankind fancies itself as having domain over nature, and pyromancy draws power from nature... See where this is going? The wild loose magick of pyromancy is nothing compared to the fervor and focus of a soul.

Pyro>Miracles>Sorcery>Pyro

Wouldn't this thread be more at home in The Archives?

Nice lore explanation Jansport. I see we agree with the cycle, although different reasoning.

@Pendant I guess so but I wanted to integrate the PvP aspect of the weakness cycle.