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Do some glitches add depth ?
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°51
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
As far as I can tell, however, I didn't damage him despite the stagger sound. I think that fully was a lag-screw.
FinPeku- Chat Moderator
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- Post n°52
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Maybe. Lag can cause crazy things in this game.
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°53
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Its in when. The damage has to occur at essentially the same time you "warp" to get stuck in the bs animation.
As for the effective dead angle weapons I can list them
Zweih>greatsword
Mura
silver knight spear (r2 only)
scythe (r2 and second r1)
Great scythe
bkga
great hammers (meaning large and great clubs mostly)
claymore/msgs/bastard sword (claymore 2hr2, msgs 2hr2, bastard sword 2hr2)
Iff you'll notice, all of these weapons are either slow (easily parried) or only dead angle well with r2s (which are slow,) thus the dead angles primary duty in any of these instances is to evade being sight parried, spear/rapier turtled or straff bs'd, with the exception being the greatscythe running r1.
To my knowledge, you can partial parry a dead angle and not take full damage, though I'll admit I could be misremembering there, but that's not the point. The point is that if you get dead angled with any of these weapons, being the only weapons I can think of that can do so on command, you are either strafe bsing or turtling and the slow and well telegraphed nature of the attacks that do it mean that If you're turtling and get caught by one, you have a more serious problem than dead angles to worry about (again, excluding the great scythe) because simply backing up or kicking will shut it down, and kicking is faster than the dead angle attacks of these weapons.
As for the effective dead angle weapons I can list them
Zweih>greatsword
Mura
silver knight spear (r2 only)
scythe (r2 and second r1)
Great scythe
bkga
great hammers (meaning large and great clubs mostly)
claymore/msgs/bastard sword (claymore 2hr2, msgs 2hr2, bastard sword 2hr2)
Iff you'll notice, all of these weapons are either slow (easily parried) or only dead angle well with r2s (which are slow,) thus the dead angles primary duty in any of these instances is to evade being sight parried, spear/rapier turtled or straff bs'd, with the exception being the greatscythe running r1.
To my knowledge, you can partial parry a dead angle and not take full damage, though I'll admit I could be misremembering there, but that's not the point. The point is that if you get dead angled with any of these weapons, being the only weapons I can think of that can do so on command, you are either strafe bsing or turtling and the slow and well telegraphed nature of the attacks that do it mean that If you're turtling and get caught by one, you have a more serious problem than dead angles to worry about (again, excluding the great scythe) because simply backing up or kicking will shut it down, and kicking is faster than the dead angle attacks of these weapons.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°54
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
If you partial parry a dead angle you can almost certainly backstab them after doing so on most of those attacks .
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°55
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Attack somebody, then count the time between them getting hit and taking damage. That delay should be twice your ping to them.TheMeInTeam wrote:The issue is that the opponent's appearance is CONSISTENTLY somewhere other than where the game is showing you, but the extent it differs from their current location is variable and difficult to distinguish without something showing a ping time to the player.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°56
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Attack somebody, then count the time between them getting hit and taking damage. That delay should be twice your ping to them.
Ping is the time it takes for a signal to go there and back. It shouldn't take double that time unless there's a spike.
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°57
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Oh. Well in that case it should be the ping, not double the ping.
Sentiel- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°58
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
This is interesting.
Can you confirm that there is a way to reliably partial parry a DA and combo it into a bs?
Can you confirm that there is a way to reliably partial parry a DA and combo it into a bs?
Jansports- Hollowed
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- Post n°59
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
I've only consistently been able to partial parry into BS Jumping attacks that would have dead angled. Usually from the Mura and Great Scythe. I haven't really been able to do it to standard 2hr1 DAs from the Zwei or Random Spinning R1s from the Mura. Just the slow jumping attacks.
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°60
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Why would you partial parry a dead angle into a BS rather than just block it then BS?Sentiel wrote:This is interesting.
Can you confirm that there is a way to reliably partial parry a DA and combo it into a bs?
Sentiel- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°61
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Because the way I understood it from the posts in the various threads around here, you can partial parry the DA even when you're locked on, but to block it, you have to unlock and turn to face the same direction as the guy using the DA. That seems unreliable and dangerous, while sacrificing a bit HP with partial, while remaining locked on seems much better option to me. It doesn't open me to potential bs and probably can be used even on faster weapons then Mura and Zwei.Saturday-Saint wrote:Why would you partial parry a dead angle into a BS rather than just block it then BS?Sentiel wrote:This is interesting.
Can you confirm that there is a way to reliably partial parry a DA and combo it into a bs?
I'm just looking for a way to fight DAs, by using my shield, while remaining locked on...as silly as it sounds. If I find a way to that, my problem with DAs will be gone, because I will be able to block them and insta bs punish them.
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°62
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Nope. At least, it'd be news to me. I have never had my DA's partialed.Sentiel wrote:you can partial parry the DA even when you're locked on
Most reliable way to deal with DA's is to dodge or zone them.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°63
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
I'm just looking for a way to fight DAs, by using my shield, while remaining locked on...as silly as it sounds. If I find a way to that, my problem with DAs will be gone, because I will be able to block them and insta bs punish them.
Poise BS. People spamming DA who eat a few of those are almost certainly going to stop doing it, and then your shield is very relevant. Any other method that discourages them facing away is also fruitful.
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°64
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
That's iffy. The damage from the da could negate the bs (while you can still take the damage) and the heavier weapons can stunlock you or hitstun bs you if you're not careful and lucky.
TheMeInTeam- Insomniac
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- Post n°65
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
True, but the other alternative is to dodge and he wants to use his shield lol.
Perhaps I should phrase my question in reverse then: if there are no DAs, what are the effective counters to blocking with a reasonable stability shield? You can't guard break due to parries, you can't DA, which means you either have to wait for them to put their shield down, attack with something that can't be parried and try to chip (magic or whips), or fish (which won't work on anybody good enough to care about if they know you're doing it).
"Waiting" on something that has no time limit is not an effective counter. Without DA absolutely everybody would need to carry something that chips, or just hope their opponent isn't good at parrying AND doesn't just turtle constantly while fishing...which is a VERY common strategy. A large number of the rookies I fight will do the "strafe and block and only attack to backstab" approach. Yes, you can beat that without DA (kick spam to break their guard then attack), but I don't see any incentive to make that tactic more rewarding when the threat of DA is very limited outside of WoG.
Perhaps I should phrase my question in reverse then: if there are no DAs, what are the effective counters to blocking with a reasonable stability shield? You can't guard break due to parries, you can't DA, which means you either have to wait for them to put their shield down, attack with something that can't be parried and try to chip (magic or whips), or fish (which won't work on anybody good enough to care about if they know you're doing it).
"Waiting" on something that has no time limit is not an effective counter. Without DA absolutely everybody would need to carry something that chips, or just hope their opponent isn't good at parrying AND doesn't just turtle constantly while fishing...which is a VERY common strategy. A large number of the rookies I fight will do the "strafe and block and only attack to backstab" approach. Yes, you can beat that without DA (kick spam to break their guard then attack), but I don't see any incentive to make that tactic more rewarding when the threat of DA is very limited outside of WoG.
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°66
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Kick, but that only works on people who are currently making several mistakes at once.
Spam. (you'll get parried.)
Magic (just about the best option, unless they have sms or gmb or vos or flash sweat)
Turtle until they get frustrated or bored (have fun with that)
Poision/toxic (moss will shut that down, and you're item use gives them an opportunity to strike, no to mention the gsoa negates toxic and bleed)
Bleed (again, moss, parries and gsoa)
straff bs (get counter bsd)
Piviot bs (get counter bsd)
Have I got them all, and why they're not viable? because they're not, especially when said turtle uses a spear or rapier and doesn't even have to expose themselves to attack.
Edit: nope, I forgot the shotel. Not only is that overcentralising (have this 1 specific item or fail and die) but the r2's are telegraphed well (get parried) and outreached by spears.
Roll in and parry (hilariously predictable, and punishable by a now unavoidable bs)
Spam. (you'll get parried.)
Magic (just about the best option, unless they have sms or gmb or vos or flash sweat)
Turtle until they get frustrated or bored (have fun with that)
Poision/toxic (moss will shut that down, and you're item use gives them an opportunity to strike, no to mention the gsoa negates toxic and bleed)
Bleed (again, moss, parries and gsoa)
straff bs (get counter bsd)
Piviot bs (get counter bsd)
Have I got them all, and why they're not viable? because they're not, especially when said turtle uses a spear or rapier and doesn't even have to expose themselves to attack.
Edit: nope, I forgot the shotel. Not only is that overcentralising (have this 1 specific item or fail and die) but the r2's are telegraphed well (get parried) and outreached by spears.
Roll in and parry (hilariously predictable, and punishable by a now unavoidable bs)
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°67
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Dead angle (get swap or poise bsd)
It's almost as though every move has a counter.
It's almost as though every move has a counter.
Leet- Insomniac
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- Post n°68
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Saturday-Saint wrote:Dead angle (get swap or poise bsd)
It's almost as though every move has a counter.
If they're gonna poise bs you, what's it matter if you're using a DA?
You're hitting them and they're walking right through it regardless.
Saturday-Saint- Caffeinated
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- Post n°69
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
It's easier to poise BS a dead angle, since they turn their back to you.
sparkly-twinkly-lizard- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°70
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
uhh, pirate... i've tried the
great shield of artorias... for whatever reason the status negation you mentioned doesn't work, i still get poisoned, and bled out in pvp with it, the only shield that seems to block poison in pvp is the spider shield... and nothing seems to block bleed, guess i'll have to swap something out for red moss.
(also i've tried turteling with havels shield with my back to a wall, it usually takes 2 minutes before people figure out what they should do, its kinda funny cause when they pull out the shotel i switch to the grass crest and then parry them, or they try bleed weapon spam, resulting in me parrying them, they all seem to forget about kicking and poison though)
great shield of artorias... for whatever reason the status negation you mentioned doesn't work, i still get poisoned, and bled out in pvp with it, the only shield that seems to block poison in pvp is the spider shield... and nothing seems to block bleed, guess i'll have to swap something out for red moss.
(also i've tried turteling with havels shield with my back to a wall, it usually takes 2 minutes before people figure out what they should do, its kinda funny cause when they pull out the shotel i switch to the grass crest and then parry them, or they try bleed weapon spam, resulting in me parrying them, they all seem to forget about kicking and poison though)
Forum Pirate- Chosen Undead
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- Post n°71
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
good to know, though irrelivant to my point (moss is quick and will still stop it, and bleed can be dodged), which is (i think) the same a saturdays point, that deadangles exsist (at least still exsist) to counter the otherwise hugely over powered turtle and has its own risk of being countered.
Other games have throws, dks has the dead angle.
Other games have throws, dks has the dead angle.
Leet- Insomniac
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- Post n°72
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
Saturday-Saint wrote:It's easier to poise BS a dead angle, since they turn their back to you.
Depending on the weapon, i see what you mean.
Leet- Insomniac
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- Post n°73
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:and nothing seems to block bleed, guess i'll have to swap something out for red moss.
Young padawon, you must learn the way of manipulating i-frames.
sparkly-twinkly-lizard- Compulsory Poster
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- Post n°74
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
the build in question is a fatrolling tank, who regularly takes on dark magic spammers... I don't really have I frames to work with, my fast builds deal with bleed just fine, but the tank, not so much.
Leet- Insomniac
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- Post n°75
Re: Do some glitches add depth ?
sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:the build in question is a fatrolling tank, who regularly takes on dark magic spammers... I don't really have I frames to work with, my fast builds deal with bleed just fine, but the tank, not so much.
It's for sure possible. If you're fat rolling through dark magic, you can fat roll through the bleed.
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